November Balance Changes: Priests, Racial Skills, and more!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Flaxative, Nov 17, 2014.

  1. Drakkan

    Drakkan Ogre

    You did not pay attention ->
    first it doesn't matter what You realized, it matter what new players can realize, what impression can they get..
    second - Flaxative was speaking of Campaign beginnings ..
    My impression there was that as priest has some big attacks, it also has 9 divine slots that were irrelevant compared to Warriors attacks..
    (until you get some better priest items)
    Months have passed until I got my 2nd Shuddering Relic .. (ok, now Daily Deal and Randi could change that)

    Although it is not popular thing to do, I'm not completely against it. Btw I rarely even play Vampires ..
    But I am against nerfing cards based on some theoretical personal preferences..

    I got the impression that nerfing Vamps was because of hype around last big nerf that they will "own the metagame" .. You have tried it, some other players
    have tried to break the metagame with Vamps .. but you did not make it
    Now as they surely dont own it, is it because of "map rotation", "bad luck", "2 legendary items that you need" or something, I'm not sure what's really the reason
    (maybe nerfing OB requires nerfing Vamps a bit) ..

    Mass Frenzy probably could be nerfed to 2 and still powerfull, and plus side is that it opens up space for 3x warrior builds and 1-1-1 .. which is good.

    Anyway (for Staff) - about nerfing Nimbus - if you want to do it, you could probably try lowering its range .. to 4.. or 3 .. so it would still be usefull in 1HP quests, but it would surely lose some of its versatility in MP.. (I vote for that kind of nerfing, reduce its power a bit, dont completely shut down the card at the start.. and if it shows too strong again, reduce it a bit again)
  2. Questor

    Questor Ogre

    If quality issues were a factor then you would start to change some of the following cards:

    Chain Harness
    Perforating Strike

    Escaping Run
    Icy Block

    Disorienting Block
    Polearm Slash
    Penetrating Stab
    Soothing Darkness
    Enchanted Harness
    Mystical Wyrmhyde
    Winds Of War

    Some might not agree all of these cards but they are mostly not played if you can avoid it because it waters down a effective deck. And some might want to add to this list.

    So, if you try to change some things based on quality issues of cards you should start to look at 80% of the legendaries and analyse why they are not played. Then try to adjust something.
  3. Fry_The_Guy

    Fry_The_Guy Lizardman Priest

    Overall, I really like the changes!

    With the nerfs to team run and dodge, it finally seems like dwarves are not the obvious choice.

    In terms of priest changes, I like all of them except the change to bad luck. The loss of range, and the ability to hit your own allies, makes it less useful in multiplayer. I would recommend making it range 5, burst 1 instead. Contrary to what most people are saying I think vampires are going to be just fine, given that warrior seems to have gotten nerfed even more than they did.

    Also, consider making a human item with two jump, soldier! and one weak parry.
  4. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    The existence of a problem set {B} is never an argument for not fixing problem set {A}.
    Flaxative likes this.
  5. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    What? They don't want Legendary items to simply be the best in stock (they should provide something interesting, but not simply better ... which is what most of them currently do), nor do they want every card to be amazing (niche cards are useful for certain maps and leagues). The cards you listed are very good -- Escaping Run is a move + card draw, Disorienting Block is a forced movement reaction, Polearm Slash is additional armor and decent damage, Enchanted Harness is very strong in the right deck, and Winds of War is super powerful for control.

    There are a few cards that could use tweaks (Penetrating Stab / Soothing Darkness), but the rest are fine.
  6. Fry_The_Guy

    Fry_The_Guy Lizardman Priest

    One more suggestion, instead of making advanced battlefield training cantrips, make its so you draw a card, then you give two cards to an ally. Having the gold card be at worst a cycle card would make it a lot more versatile. Also, similarly to your winds of ward / gusts of ward changes making the two battlefield training cards different adds strategic diversity.
    FDrybob likes this.
  7. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    I agree that Bad Luck got no better with that remake. It was an interesting (but weak) card and range 6 allowed easier use than range 3 cone. Maybe give it more duration if you want to make it stronger? Or yeah, 5 range, burst 1 is like summoning a cloud of bad luck at target location :)
  8. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    That would make it probably one of the best racial cards in the game then. Giving it Cantrip might even make it too powerful... I've seen it used in some interesting builds at 1500/1600 already and with Cantrip I can see people throwing attacks across the map to allies in range.

    And yes, I agree that Bad Luck being a Burst would be a lot better. But does it really need a buff? It is a paper quality card...
  9. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    This would be a level 19 item... maybe in the future ;)

    A couple of those are weak; the others are totally fine for their cost. I'm not sure what I'm looking at. Scarponi's point about fixing things is a good one to keep in mind. Also, for whatever silly reason, we don't seem to want to change every card every time we change cards...

    @Stexe, @Fry_The_Guy, @Lord Feleran -- Regarding Bad Luck, the goal wasn't to make it particularly better, or worse, for multiplayer. Maybe it's worse in some cases in multiplayer as a Cone 3; maybe it's better in others. But now you can hit a whole squad of goblins at once. Probably Burst 1 at Range 5 or 6 would be too much of a strict improvement for multiplayer—like Stexe said, it's a weak card; we don't necessarily want to make it competitive. Just more useful in campaign.

    This is not what we are doing :)
  10. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Yeah, it would be Bronze or Silver with a range 6 burst 1. I was thinking range 3 burst 1 or something.
    Fry_The_Guy likes this.
  11. Fry_The_Guy

    Fry_The_Guy Lizardman Priest

    range 3 burst 1, seems like a nice spot. Should be roughly equal strength to the current version in multi player, and better in single player.
  12. Fry_The_Guy

    Fry_The_Guy Lizardman Priest

    How do you determine the level of an item? Aegis of the Defender has two gold cards and a paper card, so I assumed that combination of card quality would work.
  13. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    The quality levels (silver, gold, etc.) are slightly fuzzy. Some cards are 1 level higher or lower than most at their quality. Subtle Parry is Paper+ while Weak Chop is only Paper.
  14. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

  15. doog37

    doog37 Hydra

    Only read the Priest section so far, but wow, just wow this is much bigger than I expected.
    I {state your name} hereby swear i will not comment until I actually test.
  16. Accent

    Accent Hydra

    Why? It's not on any player items, and of that cards that I remember giving me trouble in the campaign, this isn't one.
  17. Fry_The_Guy

    Fry_The_Guy Lizardman Priest

    Dodge feels like it is too weak now. Maybe consider lowering the cost of Dodge from Bronze+ to Bronze to compensate for the nerf. Another possibility would be to make it trigger even if you are not facing the attacker (after all, it is not a block).
  18. Drakkan

    Drakkan Ogre

    I agree .. Dodge would be worse than Surging Shield Block -> SSB blocks and then you can choose whether you want to go out of range and this only blocks if you go out of range.. the only advantage is, what, you can dodge behind his back (take a hit) and then strike.. it doesnt seem enough

    What I dont like in nerfing is possibility to kill a card with nerf (like NS.. from most powerful to modest, Punishing Bolt also, Firestorm, now Dodge, .. why cant we just lower its power a bit, rather than shut it down completely.. and as those cards usually are in strong items we also shut them down ..

    Reaper Scythe (OB and Dodges) and Quick Jon's Axe now just got a nice hit
  19. Fry_The_Guy

    Fry_The_Guy Lizardman Priest

    If you dodge behind someone and take a hit, they will turn around to face you while doing the attack.
  20. Drakkan

    Drakkan Ogre

    You're right .. so that's off too ..

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