[MP][2 War/1 P] A New Take.. (1842)

Discussion in 'Deck Building' started by Derek, Nov 22, 2018.

  1. Derek

    Derek Orc Soldier

    EDIT: Since posting, I have continued to climb the ladder. I now have an ELO of 1761, and for the first time in my life, I am a top 10 CardHunter player in the global multiplayer rankings. I genuinely never would have believed such an accomplishment was possible. I am truly humbled by this moment. I want to graciously thank every single person who has taken the time to read and comment on the 4 builds I have posted here thus far. This community, though small, is mighty. Without you all, I wouldn't still be enjoying this game 5 years later. Thank you so much.

    I'm shocked I'm writing this. I was tired of my 2 warrior 1 priest team hovering in the low 1600s, so I made some dramatic adjustments. They somehow propelled me into the 1700s, and so here I am with another multiplayer deck posting.

    For references to this deck in the future, I am using it in the Cyberspace PVP Map rotation.

    The changes were inspired by someone (can't recall who) in the high 1700s who squeaked out a win against me thanks to his Howling Pain and a well-timed Greater Heal. I was like "that's it, I'm overhauling."

    As a disclaimer, although this seems fairly standard, and is still my trusty 2 warrior 1 priest setup, it is the most unique deck I've posted here thus far. This means I'm the least confident in its ability, and I do still believe there is room for improvement. I will also not be referencing my past teams in my analysis of this one, so I'll just link them here, here, and here if you want to check them out.

    Without further delay:

    [BLK] There Never
    Human Warrior

    Screen Shot 2018-11-22 at 7.56.25 AM.png

    Weapons:
    I never would have thought I'd be using 2 Howling Pain's on one warrior. Still not sold on it. A double-edge sword replacing one is something I want to test out, but don't want to tinker with success. The gist of this guy is to use all this movement to make sure I can phish out blocks, and close the gap on any opponent in order to offload my big Reaper's Scythe attacks. Often times my "overpursuit" leads to 2 bloodthirsty opponents next to me, where I can offload an Obliterating Chop on both of them. The excess of movement is also nice to stockpile so that whenever I turn Werewolf from all my Howls I can still reach my opponents to offload attacks.

    All that is a very idealized scenario, where this warrior has big attacks and movement all in one turn. Often its one or the other. How do I cope with that? Well my other warrior also packs a few big punches, so the idea is to use whichever has movement to bait, and whichever has big 10+ damage to finish. This rotation, in the high elo, is all about quick kills. Expect All Out Attacks up here.

    Shield:
    All these big hitters is the primary reason for the Black Cat Buckler (identical to Parrying Buckler). Its just the most standard and reliable "stop this melee" shield.

    Helmet:
    Should be a second Chapeau Of The Afflicted Artist, but I only have one and its on the next warrior.

    Skill:
    3 copies of an OP trait that let you deck cycle and shuffle around your teammates all for a minor token? Sign me up. But seriously, if I have too much movement on this guy, and my other warrior has all the big attacks, its nice that my movement here can double-dip and be used to move my other warrior. This often allows me to save a movement card, which makes running from me futile.

    Everything else:
    Standard. Good. Buy them if you're missing them. But easy enough to substitute whatever you have without severely altering the build.

    ~

    [TIE] Was A
    Human Warrior

    Screen Shot 2018-11-22 at 7.56.42 AM.png

    Weapons:
    In a melee-centric rotation, Snitrick's Last Stand shines. There is really no substitute for this bad boy. He's a niche pick, but really really good in the right scenario.
    I've always thought The Lunginator was better than people gave it credit for. It gets knocked because its bashes don't synergize with its range 1 attacks, but in this rotation my bashes are used to clear victory squares (when I don't want the opponent next to me) or to clear blocks (where the opponent remains in my grasp).
    Stolen torch is there for big boy damage. Again, the theme of this rotation is kill 'em quick.

    Shield:
    Yvette's Buckler is really just there to provide some insurance against Wizards. This team is not built to address them, but they're rare enough at the high elo, that this shield is enough of a compromise.

    Skill:
    Subtle Positioning here because I lacked a token. The extra parry is nice. If it wasn't obvious, this is my blocking warrior. I use "There Never"s movement to bait, then enter "Was A", then flee with "There Never". Or I bait with this guy, absorb what the enemy has to offer, then unsuspectingly close the gap with "There Never" and offload his attacks when he has his Reaper's Scythe big boy cards.

    Everything Else:
    Again, pretty standard, albeit Epic and Legendary heavy. Pick up what you can. Reynoldo's Boots are my favorite minor token right now, and Chapeau of the Afflicted Artist is my go-to helm.

    ~

    [REP] Bodhi Tree
    Human Priest

    Screen Shot 2018-11-22 at 7.56.59 AM.png

    Big changes here. I'm no longer a Bless priest. I found bouncing around to be too important, which means I wasn't capitalizing on my Bless terrain. And I switched to one Evensong. This ups my heal potential, my frenzy potential, arguably my Altruism proc potential, and leaves room for some new minor token stuff elsewhere. It also let's me hit a lot harder on occasion.

    Cleansing Shroud is my alternate for a minor token armor. An armor that heals me and my opponents? A Greater Heal? An insurance card against Wizards and otherwise a Heal 2 Altruism proc for a third card? For a minor token? Too good.

    Vollmond's Boots are an important change here. I still have some Vulnerables, but no longer have good armor and have half the Pressing Bashes as I used to. I need to be ready to flee at all times.

    Crespin's Shroud catches a lot of people off guard. Its really great when I put my warrior's back to an opponent, they eyeball their big 13+ damage card, only to be rejected by a priest 3 squares away. The Purge card is just as important as the blocks though (its the reason I picked this item actually). Gotta have an ace in the hole against Entangling Roots, Impenetrable Nimbus, and Martyr's Blessing. Tome of the Martyr is just good. 3 Holy cards was important. Warrior draw potential is especially nice, because I'm often drawing movement when I have big attacks, and big attacks when I have movement.

    ~~~

    And that's it! As always, I hope newer players are able to derive some themes from this, even if they can't copy item for item. And I hope the rest of you have fun frantically scribbling notes so you can counter me when we next meet.

    I hope at least a few of my guild mates are reading as well. Feel free to steal ideas, or keep them in your memory bank as a snapshot of what to expect through the 1600s.

    Thanks!
    Campaign3
     
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2018
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  2. squirrat

    squirrat Orc Soldier

    Thanks for sharing. I spec a sometimes the 2 warrior 1 priest teams and it's good to see what the build looks like.

    Is sacred shroud really worth a token? You can get the Greater Heal back with Advanced Piety (or stick with focused piety) and use Cleansing Hide Armor instead. With the spare token off the armor, you could use it on a human skill and pick up a sprint team, leadership, or even just use focused positioning for 3 cycle cards. Since you can get the Greater Heal back on the divine skill, you are spending a token just for the sacred shroud card. Maybe it's worth it to you I don't know.
     
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  3. Derek

    Derek Orc Soldier

    Great questions, thanks for opening up a discussion.

    Advanced Piety is pretty much off the table for me because 2 Altruisms is not reliable. This priest sometimes can function as a draw machine (was better with 2 Sacrificial Axes but I digress). Instead of {3 Altruism, 1 Greater Heal, 1 Cleansing Ray, 1 Sacred Shroud} I would have {2 Altruism, 1 Greater Heal, 2 Cleansing Ray, 1 Reliable Hide}. The former is better to me, even without considering draw power, especially in a warrior focused meta.

    Admittedly the above does not do the latter option justice, because indeed I would have an extra token to spend, but 2 traits and a parry from my racial skill right now is perfect. Sprint Team!, Leadership, or even a third trait, wouldn't protect my priest as much. She gets targeted down a lot and the parry is nice. Veteran Positioning, Apprentice Command, Trained Flexibility, and Superb Flexibility are the skills I would consider if I had a spare token. Rusty Healing Armor is the tokenless I'd switch to. Do any of those skills warrant a swap away from Cleansing Shroud to you?
     
  4. squirrat

    squirrat Orc Soldier

    I played your build, won three in a row, and stopped (my rank 1220 went to 1290). I lost the priest but the warriors finished the battles easily. I used Cleansing Hide Armor instead and had {3 Vanguard, 2 Altruism, 1 Greater Heal, 2 Cleansing Ray, 1 Reliable Hide}.

    I wonder what the build would be like without Vanguard. I think Vanguard is the weakest part of build, because so many tokens are spent on it. It cycles the cards nicely, but a couple times the warriors had dead draws where they had only move and armor cards. Maybe I will try Investigate on the priest, Block Soldier is interesting idea, Leadership is worth a try because of the extra armor/block cards I had.

    It's nice build I beat some 1300's without even losing advantage.
     
  5. Derek

    Derek Orc Soldier

    I'm super glad you had the item collection to copy! That's awesome! I agree that Vanguard can be weak at times. But its really strong when I draw all attacks and no movement. Sometimes, when I draw all movement, its also nice to make sure I can adequately escape with all party members and live to see another round (yes, sometimes I have to completely abandon the victory squares, running in fear). In this situation, Vanguard helps me avoid anyone trying to pursue.

    Investigate on Priest could be cool. Helps keep her healthy. Feel free to post here what your priest looks like once you're happy with her. As for Block Soldier...cannot recommend. A 50% block is almost always worse than moving your closest ally away one square when you're playing defensively, and is objectively worse than moving one square in when playing offensively. Leadership really did cross my mind here. I would put Focused Dervish on the Howling Pain warrior if you go this route. Trading in Unreliable Blocks for new cards is potent, especially with this much movement.

    Thanks for the dialogue! Have fun!
     
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  6. Derek

    Derek Orc Soldier

    Also, I've since moved into 2nd globally with this deck. I'm in the mid 1800s. All doubts about this build have been erased from my mind; this sucker is good.
     
  7. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    So...this is my first time netdecking. I used this build, minus the snarlcub hides, and beat someone 400 points of elo higher than me...with two misclicks.
    Thanks derek.
     
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  8. Taudis

    Taudis Kobold

    Thanks for putting up your list! I tried to build the same thing and it's been very fun. I made some changes based on collection differences and different rotation/playstyle. It's below a cut because I think changes need the context of the whole build and also because I have no idea how to not over-explain things.

    howler.jpg
    Chorg
    Level 20 Human Warrior

    My Howling Pain warrior ended up mostly being the same as yours but with worse item selection. I don't own Reaper's Scythe, Snarlcub Hide, or Hawkwind's Moccasins, so they got replaced by different items. To be fair to Vollmond Boots and Quick Jon's Axe, these are more sidegrades. I did really appreciate having Unnerving Strike on such a mobile character - it was very easy to get behind someone for the guaranteed block removal. I'm not sure how I feel about Vollmond Boots and would definitely switch to Hawkwind's Moccasins if I owned them but it's been fun on this rotation getting T1 Wild Run backed up by Martyr's Blessing. That card feels bad the rest of the time though and while I really like the Energizing Move, it sucks that it reveals itself.

    I did make the change from a second Howling Pain to Double-Edged Sword and I don't regret it one bit. I'm not sure it's entirely the right call without having the second Chapeau Of The Afflicted Artist since 4 Howls feels like the right number - 3 would probably be too few and the Dodge I think helps make up for the slightly reduced mobility.

    flailer.jpg
    Morg
    Level 20 Human Warrior

    This warrior is the more radically changed from your build because I just don't at all have the items. One I actually do have but didn't include is Snitrick's Last Stand and have been waffling it in and out of the build the entire time I've been playing this build. I think the Wounded Block is pretty much a dead card and hate it but this is still a rotation where having the extra Parry for defense and the Pulverizing Hack to kill out of nowhere is nice. I'm showing the version without it to promote discussion on the build setup.

    Snarlcub Hide & Yvette's Buckler -> Werewolf Hide & Quinn's Buckler: This is me trying to preserve your setup as best I can. Dodge still helps you advance like Surging Block and you still get a Monstrous Hide! I can't say for sure but I'm pretty sure I'm missing that Defender's Block and Dodge won't stop an attack like Surging unless you actually, you know, dodge out of LoS. Negatives out of the way, Quickness Aura and extra move cards can set you up to do a very good Cult of the Bejeweled impression, Dashing to a wizard or priest who thought they were a safe distance away from you and unloading your massive attacks. I really like Werewolf Hide and think it would probably see a lot more play if the iconic card (Monstrous Hide) wasn't on a tokenless item.

    The Lunginator & Snitrick's Last Stand -> Whirling Flail & Bejeweled Shortsword: I almost didn't try this build because The Lunginator is such a unique item that's very difficult to emulate the functionality of and... I don't own one. I tried Ravager's Cudgel for a bit so that I still had step attacks and Unnerving Strike and then Warrior's Mace so I had steps, big attacks, and a bash. While both aren't bad items, they're both a little awkward trying to act as direct replacements for The Lunginator. There is probably a version of this warrior that uses 2x Warrior's Mace and Snitrick's Last Stand but keeps the Quinn's Buckler/Werewolf Hide setup - the extra Parrys make up for your shield not really blocking and although Lunging Hack is bad, being Vanguard fuel and a block check sort of justifies it. 4x is a little much.

    I didn't explore that route, though, because I was really focused on keeping the Stolen Torch. I wanted to keep at least one weapon and like I said, I felt iffy about Snitrick's. Instead, I leaned into offense. Bejeweled Shortsword was obvious - I wanted to keep the BIG offense aspect of stolen Torch, it offered some additional mobility and I truly think that most warriors should be asking themselves if their weapon major tokens aren't better spent as this item (my warrior builds often center around "why am I playing this over BJSS? why am I playing this over Vibrant Pain?" - not every build wants those cards but you better be prepared to explain why a weapon is better than them if you want your build to be successful). That left me Major/Minor or Minor/Minor for the 3rd weapon (upgrading the minor token on the boots in the case of Minor/Minor - didn't go that route so never really thought about what they'd become). Going over my collection, I came up with Whirling Flail, Double-Edged Sword, Slice And Dice, Rageblood Dagger, Troll's Ire, or a second Stolen Torch. Stolen Torch and Troll's Ire were dismissed pretty much instantly - I didn't need a second range 1 motionless weapon. Rageblood Dagger and Doubled-Edged Sword also got the cut pretty quickly - while the extra mobility would have been nice, some changes I made to the Priest made it less appealing. I ended up settling on Whirling Flail over Slice And Dice. The other warrior had picked up the Unnerving Strikes this one lost (and used them pretty well) and while Whirling Flail is kind of cute, I think Inquisitor's Strike is very underrated - it's often a 12 or 13 damage attack that completely dodges a popular armor. Not that I advocate for weak block checking attacks but the Weak Chop is surprisingly good at fishing out two blocks in this rotation with characters all gravitating towards the concentrated Victory Squares. I've been less disappointed by it than I thought I'd be even if it still sucks.

    generic cleric.jpg
    Generic Cleric
    Level 22 Human Priest

    The Priest is the reason I decided to share my build. She's definitely influenced by how I rebuild the warriors but I think that it's potentially a really good way for her to go. I rambled a bit while explaining the warriors but something that's really important to pick up is that my changes for the most part ended up increasing their damage potential. That made start to really question Evensong. I kept finding that it often didn't matter whether or not I had Mass Frenzy up. I'd often find that I was overkilling my foes and that I'd rather be proactive with moving/attacking than buff up. I did love the big attacks and really liked Greater Heal, so I tried to see if I could find a card that could meet those criteria. Here's what my collection came up with
    Healing Hand Mace: This was actually the first item I tried, since it had similar Altruism potential but Team Heal is not an adequate replacement for Greater Heal.
    Glowing Laser Baton, Lightforce Grinder, and Lightforce Nunchaku: I tried these next and Laser malfunctions were not at all what this character wanted to be doing. Glowing Laser Baton was pretty close, though, and led me to think about this next one...
    Jaguar Mace: This is conceptually what I wanted but Feinting Strike doesn't do quite enough damage and Heal doesn't heal quite enough. Getting the Pressing Bashes brought me back to thinking about your earlier double Sacrificial Axe builds and how much bashing helps a Priest stay alive.
    Glinting Eye Hammer: Which is what led me to look at this card. That Raging Strike is pretty scary to have on a priest and I wish it was a holy card because I do miss the quadruple Altruism procs of Evensong but Mass Frenzy sometimes having a 50% chance of drawing a card didn't match up to getting Powerful Bash and a second Purge into the deck. I've loved having the second Purge, there's just so many juicy targets for it and often times your worst case scenario is you remove a Vulnerable or a Creature Of The Night rather than discard. I'm not too sure how to feel about Healing Rays compared to Greater Heal. Sometimes it's significantly better than Greater Heal and sometimes it's a heal 6. That said, sometimes a heal 6 is functionally no different than a heal 8 and the amount of times it has been heal 12 is probably greater than the amount of times the 2 life has mattered on a single target.
    Polished Club: After Glinting Eye Hammer going well I got really excited about Healing Rays + bashes and subbed in this plus an additional St. Ulrich's Bones over the Tome Of The Martyr. I think this might still be a good variation but only if the warriors got changed around a bit. Derek is right about wanting to move around diminishing the returns from Bless and I personally missed the 3rd Martyr's Blessing. Limited Heal is surprisingly bad (I think 6hp might actually be the threshold for single target healing having real value). This is definitely just player error but I kept playing the priest like it had Mighty Bludgeon and Powerful Bash. Trained Bludgeon and Able Bash are not bad cards to have when cornered but don't totally change the game the way cracking someone for 20+ damage does when they make the mistake of confronting the priest unprepared. So I went back to Glinting Eye Hammer.

    The other changes:
    Vollmond Boots -> Galvanized Zombie Boots: I did this while I was testing Jaguar Hand Mace. GZB were better when providing the 5th bash than when providing the 4th bash and I might still switch back. That said the extra armor is nice and 4 bashes has been good enough.
    Cleansing Shroud -> Mail Of Succor: I know, I know, cutting even more Greater Heals is probably not the best idea. But listen: these two armors heal the same amount (well sort of - Cleansing Ray sometimes prevents damage and effectively heals more), Mail of Succor doesn't require LoS, and it goes well with the boots change by giving you a Dash that you've lost.

    I'm really excited about how well this priest is doing and wanted to share.
     
  9. Derek

    Derek Orc Soldier

    Thank you so much for sharing! I love seeing how the uniqueness of every individual's item collection drives deck building! If I had seen this a few days ago I would have gone into a lot of detailed questions about how it performs relative to my deck in the same map rotation, but now my question is this:
    Are you using this same build in the new Winter PVP Map Rotation?

    From what I've seen early, there is almost always a Mage, sometimes 3... I've been slowly altering this build to more appropriately address this shifting meta (and will hopefully post an update here soon), and to me it feels like your build will need tweaking too. I'm noticing:
    • Vollmond's Boots' stock has actually increased in value. A massive movement may be nice to close the gap in early rounds; I should consider it.
    • Your damage potential might actually be too high on these new maps. I suspect more step attacks might help you offload big damage more reliably.
    • A second Purge is really strong. I desperately want to find a way to work Purge back into my build. My new iteration lacks it because:
    • Crespin's Shroud now feels like a bad pick. Not enough warriors to justify 2 Cause Fumbles.
    • Glinting Eye Hammer is a weapon I don't have, and have never considered! I would be more worried about the Raging Strike now that Wizards are more common.
    • The stock of Bless has increased with this new rotation. I've worked 3 into my deck (but foregoing Purge and Defenders' Block, yikes..)
    Sorry if I rambled! I hope we can talk more about how the new maps have changed things for this build. Please feel free to post your updates here if you desire!
     
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  10. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    This is the mega Charge map rotation.
     
  11. Taudis

    Taudis Kobold

    No, I was running it in the previous rotation. I actually haven't had the free hour or so I like to have for MP because of the holiday season - I'm very busy!

    Crespin's Shroud -> Flawed Healing Ring seems like a really good way to keep a Purge in the deck. All those big LoS situations that benefit wizards look theoretically nice for long distance healing.

    Going off what tolkien said, I think one of the first switches I'd make is for the Howling Pain warrior to do something like Parrying Buckler -> Quinn's Buckler and Vollmond Boots -> Tochtli Boots (or Boots Of Etzicatl if you have them - I don't), plus the Torch warrior to go Ilinca's Moccasins -> Tochtli Boots. Charges do look amazing on Ice House, decent on Melting Glacier, and at least pretty reasonable for closing gaps on the other two maps. Plus triple movement boots I think are good in heavy wizard environments and it gives them one more thing to have to think about and possibly screw up in terms of repositioning your characters.

    If I was keeping the build as similar as possible, I'd definitely make the questionable changes back, ie Bejeweled -> Snitrick's and Mail Of Succor -> Cleansing Shroud. Vengeance and Cleansing Ray are both very nice cards to have in a heavy Wizard environment. I'd probably also consider going back to Evensong for the same reason Flawed Healing Ring looks nice - it seems really easy to maintain LoS for those big Greater Heals and if you're changing the warriors to have less damage, Mass Frenzy is more useful again.

    More Bless to me means just going back to double Sacrificial Axe priest, unless you have a good Major/Minor divine weapon or maybe want to try to turn the Aegis Of The Defender into a minor token shield?

    Take it with a grain of salt because it's all theory and I might not be able to test any of it until after the holidays:

    Chorg
    Level 20 Human Warrior

    Basically the same but with Tochtli Boots. I was pretty happy to get my second Quinn's Buckler in a recent DD (either it or Hexagon Shield have to be the best tokenless IMO), so that's fun.

    Morg
    Level 20 Human Warrior

    Changed to double Double-Edged! It's a remarkably good weapon and keeps damage reasonably high while including the necessary step attacks. I do hate having two Backbiting Strikes but at least you don't take damage if you use it to block check. Here's a radical alternate that I'd also consider:

    Alternate Morg
    Level 20 Human Warrior

    It obviously depends pretty heavily on getting poked at range but one of my first warrior builds was a Dwarf with double Talissa's and it's amazing the amount of times you'll get a free Dash. The Snitrick's on the original build might also be better as Talissa's but Snitrick's gives you an edge against warriors and losing Parrying Buckler on your Howler and -1 Martyr's on the priest means you're a little worse off in melee.

    Generic Cleric
    Level 22 Human Priest
    Mostly the same. That Defensive Buckler really ought to be Yvette's Buckler. I do often play vampires (their lack of armor removal makes them bad but Quick Run+Talented Healer is a great way to punish everyone who's scrambling around trying to adjust at the start of a rotation) and Loner is a free card way more often than it hurts you - it's actually pretty hard to have a big Loner in MP.
    The other good Minor token shields I have in my collection are Spiked Shield and Parrying Buckler. Parrying is probably what you should actually play if you don't have Yvette's - it's just too good even in a wizard heavy rotation. Spiked Shield is an interesting option that I might try if I'd kept Glinting Eye Hammer and Mail Of Succor - the big attacks and unexpected movement on a priest gives you a third crack at those control wizards after they've somehow had enough Telekinesis to beat your warriors' thousand move cards. "Suddenly Mighty Bludgeon!" is pretty good strat vs. non-wizards too, though you really want that to be more "Suddenly Mighty Bludgeon for the kill!" than "Suddenly Mighty Bludgeon and my priest is next to your warrior while you have priority!"
     
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