Summer Balance Discussion

Discussion in 'Testing' started by Flaxative, Jun 15, 2016.

  1. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    I wonder whether this "testing" on the test server actually contributes anything in the first place since people are usually not trying their fullest there.
    It would be interesting to see how elves would fare with proposed EM cards. As Flax wisely said: they make currently other elf skills nearly pointless to run since EM is simply far too strong atm.
    I'm always glad when I can Purge (full health) opp's EM away though it's just -1 for me. EM shouldn't feel like Martyr Blessing IMO. Currently it might be even better since it has longer duration and it draws almost always an attack card.
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
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  2. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Hey all, a couple notes.

    First of all, this might go without saying, but make sure you're playing your test games on a variety of boards!

    Second, regarding the pizza rewards—I don't think I explicitly stated this anywhere but I am keeping a running list of folks who are submitting actual playtest-based feedback to me, and I will distribute the playtest rewards to those players after the playtest closes.

    Finally, two big questions we have. Folks are often coming and saying, oh, this build can't work anymore, that build can't work anymore. Please use 'everyitem' console cheat on test server a few times and build the most OP parties you can imagine!! And then help us answer these questions.
    1. How are (triple) elf warriors doing?
    2. Is buffed-burst (aka burfft) still very strong and hard to play against?

    Remember, as always, feedback based on test games where both players have done their best to build & play is way more valuable than speculation. Thanks!
  3. Deepweed

    Deepweed Thaumaturge

    I need a partner to test stuff. I'm usually available, and one can count on me being available around 14:00 UTC.
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  4. BlackVoidDeath

    BlackVoidDeath Guild Leader

    And how do you get into that list?

    ~ And just to make is clear: The playtesters will get 80 pizza after the playtests close and thats it? - nothing in between and no extra for extra playtesting?
    (I am not surprised but just checking to make it clearer)
  5. Well I tested Elf Maneuvers and Burst with Karnal1.

    For Elf Maneuvers I use diferent type of elves. One focused on step attacks (13 moves), One with less steps attacks but more utility moves (9 moves), One with even more utility moves (7 moves). The tree types are competitive viable in the normal server. I know that is posible to play with more movements or less. I tried to maxime the usefull moves for each JOB and not simply add or remove movement by pleasure. Note they should be played differently: Agressive, Situational or Defensive

    On my test, The EM with 13 moves worked really nice, with a very similar performance compared to non nerfed maneuvers. The other two version were a bit inconsistent in the draw. With that, I'm not saying that those versions sucked because those builds are still strong, They just don't have enought synergy to work like they work on normal server. They still can perform their main strategy very well. On my conclusion, EM is still playable and could be really good if you focus on play around it. For other kind of elves than currently use EM but aren't focused to play around it, they still can perform their job, but with less consistency than before. So you could say that non - nerfed EM is that good that you can do a build which not play around it and is still profit. With the new change they lose that extra profit but they can be played.

    For me, even with that lose of extra profit, I think is better to keep playing CM instead of other elf skills. Maybe I'm wrong and a new age of "unstoppables" elf are comming after test other elf skills, something that now is beyond my comprehension.

    For Burst, Karnal1 was the one playing with so he could be more accurated with the explanation. For me Burst is less powerfull but solid, still a top tier deck. Can't say something like Burst is "very powerfull or very hard to play against", because play against burst isn't easy and never will be easy. The changes help to reduce the gap between good Burst decks and other good decks, that is for sure. But if what people want is to kill burst as a viable deck, I'm so sorry. You need to play good, and also have a good team (I'm fine with that).
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2016
  6. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

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  7. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Thanks Scarponi. That last sentence should also answer BVD's question about "no extra." :)

    (I'll just say this - for anyone to earn more than the posted 80 pizza you're gonna need to take this very seriously, no phoning it in - lots and lots of playtest games, against a variety of human opponents on a variety of boards, really putting stress on the changes and giving very detailed feedback based on that experience.)
    ParodyKnaveBob, Tyro, Wandere and 2 others like this.
  8. Robauke

    Robauke Guild Leader

    Is what you've gotten so far not hitting the mark?

    NIMABI War Monkey

    Burfft Comp seems kinda lackluster right now, mainly because of the Savage Curse nerf (FoA nerf actually didnt do much). Discard 1 card for +2 damage isn't a good deal. Melee Comps with heavy armor have much better chance to take down Burfft.
    Burst, on the other hand, ist still viable.
  10. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    No, it's been good and useful so far but it could be much more thorough :)
    BlackVoidDeath likes this.
  11. Vakaz

    Vakaz Guild Leader

    I'm curious about the nerf to the standard Sprint. Is it just for logical consistency with Sprint, Team! (sprint = 6)? Standard sprint was in a good place before, and I don't see it really getting much better with a small nerf to it's big brother (which is definitely still a better token investment). Any thoughts?

    Easy solution would be for sprint team to become something like "Dart, Team!" at move 6, and sprint could stay 8.
    BlackVoidDeath likes this.
  12. rinco69

    rinco69 Thaumaturge

    On some maps having a plain old Sprint lets you pin a wizard up against a wall in the first turn, with their support far far away. That's exactly how I won my last game on this months map Streams of Blood - which is making a double appearance!
    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.
  13. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    I was also thinking that regular Sprint doesn't see much play anyway. And it gets affected by encumber effects.
  14. Robauke

    Robauke Guild Leader

    True. All those "move, team!" cards should be affected as well.
    Buff encumber.
    timeracers and seth arue like this.
  15. Deepweed

    Deepweed Thaumaturge

    I sent my initial wave of feedback already. I'll need some help testing other stuff, though. What time are you guys usually on?
  16. nice update.. i really like the change on Savage Curse and Elven maneuvers.. thanks BM! :)
  17. Robauke

    Robauke Guild Leader

    I would fancy a few serious rounds with about anyone.
    Assuming its 15:00UTC now, i'll probably swing by in 2 hrs, 17:00 utc.
  18. good balance .. especially on savage curse and elven maneuvers, keep it up guys!
  19. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Just wanted to pop in and thank everyone for the feedback so far. This process is going pretty smoothly. My catchphrase: More news soon ^_^
  20. Is possible to keep some cards without the changes at SP?

    For example Flash of Agony, is a solid way to beat some 1 hp quest (not the only wa,y but the "easiest").
    I know that the main target for change Flash of Agony is to reduce the use of double Searing Pain at MP, something reasonable. Usually people play it because they play Serain Pain or Mordecai's Staff of Magma and not because they build a mage for play Flash of Agony. Even after changes there are way s to play FoA at MP, but I'm not sure is the same applies for 1 hp quest.

    Also the Tekekinesis works practically the same in most maps, and for others isn't a big deal. But this is for MP. For SP, maybe if monsters keep their "vanilla" version, some Manticores don't suffer the changes. And for the quest with an Annoying rock, i guess it need to be played differently. (but if we can keep the teleport for SP, is even better).


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