Purging Burst doesn't discard handicaps granted by enemies?

I don't see a problem with this. Prior to the EttSC change purge always removed enemy handicaps as well, it would just be gaining the ability to remove allied ones. I think it's a simple straightforward way to increase purge's functionality without making it overly complicated, but I do recognize it's not "as useful as possible."

No good. This would remove ally cards such as accelerated thought, savage curse and unholy energy (or even bad luck on the rare occasion someone is trying to keep a card such as frenzy aura). I don't think identifying specific card types is a good way to go as it'll likely just run into more corner cases, and there would probably be other problematic cards as well, these are just the ones I can think of.

 

I always wondered why purges don't simply remove all attachments from all affected characters, regardless of ownership. And I mean it purely from a game design perspective.

I do get that not removing your own cards is a clear benefit for the caster (something which is probably too convenient for a paper and bronze card, respectively). But, while making the effect more powerful, it also makes it way less interesting from a game-dynamics point of view.

For starters, the current implementation puts a limit to what's achievable with it. For instance, you cannot use purge to get rid of attachments inflicted by your own cards (Firestorm comes to mind as the primary example, though others could be brought up).

It doesn't end there though, as I think removing the checks for cards ownership would also introduce some really interesting interplay considerations to it.

Suppose the enemy attached PoK to one of my chars, and I then used Impenetral Nimbus. The opponent can simply purge the nimbus off while leaving the PoK in place. It's the best of both world, a win-win kind of tool for its user: the purging player doesn't need to make any meaningful decision, as purge in its current form can't possibly have any unwanted effects.

Now, if Purge/Purging Burst removed all attachments, indistinctly, the decision about whether you want to play it or not suddenly becomes wildly more intriguing, as the cost for removing some nasty attachment might involve also giving up an highly desirable buff or trait..

As an added benefit, the cards descriptions as well as their implementations would suddenly become trivial to both implement and understand. "Remove all attachments from the target / affected characters" and that's really it, no unexpected results or surprises there.

Cards which are more complex than a simple Purge or Purging Burst (like Destructive Purge, for instance) might still take ownership of attachments into consideration, giving them an additional notch over the simpler (and cheaper) counterparts.

 

Seconded.

I think Purge NOT removing handicaps from enemy characters actually gives it more power than it really should have. It already is the ultimate dispel toolkit at a very low cost, making it perfectly favorable for its user is just overkill.

Have it like a standard RPG disenchant effect [ie, Dispel Magic in D&D] where it doesn't care what the nature of the magic is, it just tries to remove it.

 

This would remove Assist/Attack cards like Unholy Wellspring and Savage Curse.

I would be fine with the simple "Removes all attachments."

 

I think having purge effects remove all attachments is a good idea. I would suggest adding a slight heal when purging allies. (Also change cleansing cards so they only heal allies)

Would this affect Holy Presence? I have not tested how it currently interacts with attachments.

 

If you still want to go this route, it sounds like it could be a good fit for my latest suggestion. "Discard all Assist and Boost cards attached to target enemy or discard all Handicap and Pure Attack cards attached to target ally."

 

I was more thinking about Purge and Purging Burst specifically, not the whole array of purging cards across the board.

When it comes to other purging effects though, I'm not sure is that'd be a desirable change. I.e. Destructive Purge would probably work best if left unchanged.

But, as @Haxzploid pointed out, other cards might be affected in a way more dramatic (possibly unwanted) fashion.

• Holy Presence (would this constantly erase attachments from enemies and allies alike? that wouldn't sound too good)
• Shrug It Off (it's an already under-used card, imagine if it also removed beneficial attachments

Think this is worth being evaluated very carefully

 

@Bandreus Good points on those two cards. Making HP stay mostly the same and SIO purely beneficial (since it can only self-target anyway), would be necessary elements.

 

Thinking outside the box here.

What if all types of attachments had an extra icon on the card. Like a "+" or a "-", as in positive or negative. Some could even have both.

Then have purge remove all negative attachments when cast on allies and all positive attachments when cast on enemies enemies.

Would work much like purge is intended to atm. with the added benefit of removing other types of bad attachments. It would also be very clear to the player what would happen when casting purge. Also the wording on other cards would become more clear

An example:

(the +)



It could even be a "Thumbs up" and a "Thumbs down"

 

Thus far, this remains the best option I've seen to make purge useful without it becoming overly complicated and/or changing a wide spectrum of cards just to improve how a few cards work.

 

Nah, I like the 'discard all attachments' one best so far, it's the most versatile to use [very similar to misguided heal in a sense] AND simple to understand option, especially for such a readily available card.

It also gives more versatility in adding higher quality effects that are more favorable [Eg Purifying Burst: Heal all allies in range by 3 and remove all enemy cards and handicaps from affected allies].

It also makes shrug it off and holy presence similarly good for their retaining of positive effects [though SIO needs to be more comprehensive in its removals in turn], and might convince me to actually use SIO.

 

I disagree that anything involving card ownership can be considered not complicated. That very type of behavior is what inspired the bug report we're in because it doesn't mesh well with terrain, which is now a very significant source of handicaps.

I would recommend either reverting to the previous "Remove all attachments" because of it's sheer simplicity or "Discard all Assist and Boost cards attached to target enemy or discard all Handicap and Pure Attack cards attached to target ally" because it makes purging effects maximally beneficial, doesn't involve ownership, and similar logic can be used for all related cards (Shrug It Off, Lateral Thinking, Holy Presence, etc).

 

1. Pre-EttSC purge referred to card ownership. So it's "not complicated" in the sense that it's a minor change from what players are used to. The suggestion essentially reverts purge to what it was right before the EttSC release with the one addition that it now also removes all handicaps from allies.
   
2. Terrain based handicaps are controlled by the character who placed the terrain as one would expect. Thus when an enemy plays a rad card (whether terrain, or bomb, or bolt) these handicaps would always be removed by purge. This shouldn't cause problems and is straight-forward imo.
   
3. The issue wasn't terrain, the difficulty stemmed from attempting to work with group 3 cards which aren't even available to players, and then not anticipating how that would work with player based rad cards (including terrain). That, and that purge doesn't actually currently say what it does. So it appears complicated at the moment, but would play out fairly straight-forwardly if fixed as suggested.

 

Scarponi, if both players cast radiation affecting numerous characters. It becomes quite complicated figuring out what radion effect attached what handicap.

just imagine your character standing on a mix of radiation in 9 squares, cast by both you and your opponent. Now the effects trigger. I want you to point out what happened, and now do it using animation speed 10

 

Besides the fact that a situation where both players bringing radiation, and then both players group characters next to each other, and then both players also spam rad-terrain in that area, is not going to be a common scenario... I'll still give you the run down. If I'm one of those players, and after the next round starts and handicaps get spammed everywhere, I probably don't know which handicaps are whose. But, with the suggestion I'm supporting I do know that if I cast purging burst on the whole lot this is what happens:

• My characters have all handicaps removed.
• My opponents characters get the handicaps from his terrain removed, but retain the handicaps from my terrain.

Nine times out of ten that's a better situation for me than my purging burst just removing all handicaps from everyone.

 

Meanwhile, complexity of card issues aside, MY point is that functionality makes a COMMON, PAPER card much more beneficial than it has any right to be.
Perhaps, like Parry, this is an intentional balance to the system- but, unlike parry, it removes the rather fascinating tactical element of 'is it worth removing these good/bad attachments in exchange for these bad/good attachments on the character' that it could have by just being a basic dispel card.

I'm strongly in favor of Purge NOT working like a high-tier 'remove all my problems AND make all my enemies lose all their boosts' trump card.
It's pretty fantastic enough that it's already the ultimate non-terrain-effect debuffer [Yo, you got nimbus? I laughs at yo nimbus. You gots frenzy? I laughs at yo frenzy.], it doesn't NEED to be 'miracle from up high making everything in life perfect for me alone'.

Imagine if someone in a D&D campaign asked to have their level 2 spell act like a Wish or Miracle spell..

 

The problem is it might not be useful outside of getting rid of effective attachments, because not everyone runs nimbus/ff it needs to be good when it works.

 

I'm leaning toward the original purge (remove all attachments).