[LEAGUE] Problems with the League system

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by Stexe, Apr 25, 2014.

  1. neoncat

    neoncat Feline Outline

    I really like this idea. It costs N pizza to enter a league. You win no pizza, but you can recover your N pizza a little bit at a time by playing extra matches.
  2. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    There is an issue with collusion, that's for sure: Just got asked to allow someone in another pod to gain 5 stars, and he'd resign. I didn't take him up on it, but it shows there's a problem here with the current setup for tiebreakers. Also, seems pretty rampant in the mp chat room.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2014
  3. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    Often the easiest methods are the best:

    30 (or more?) pizza to enter
    Remove pizza prices.
    First 4 games, every win gives 10 pizza.
    After that, every win gives 5 pizza.
    No tiebreakers.

    What do you think?
  4. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    Maybe, but I wonder if it could be expanded to things other than pizza. I mean, since this is the only repeatable way so far to earn the normally-for-real-world-money currency, does it make sense to turn tournament play into a pizza farm? Just purely about pizza?

    For that matter, the devs would have to balance between "ensuring they make money off people buying pizza to enter" and "ensuring players feel the tournament is a good reward for their investment." On one hand they need the money, and on the other they risk annoying players.
  5. neoncat

    neoncat Feline Outline

    Agreed. I'm leery of throwing hoards of pizza out as prizes, and chests / figures are much better anyways. At most, pizza should be handed out in small quantities to induce people to play extra matches.
  6. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    You're right that non-constructed leagues favor whoever has the right items for it. I'm glad we have a chance now to test them for free to see if we're ready for them yet, and I'm going to make a suggestion to let people try them for free in the future. Also, I started two threads to discuss what people are using, which should help people decide if it's worth the risk.
  7. Checkers

    Checkers Kobold

    Here is my own feedback. I haven't scanned through this thread yet, so I might be repeating things:

    I think Leagues would best shine as a place where new players can feel that they are competing on a level playing field, and experienced players get a chance to show that skill > items.

    A) Player constructed deck leagues are for experienced players only.
    As it is now, the player-constructed deck leagues (Chess and Waterway), feel like it's the rich getting richer by stomping all over new players.
    I don't even know how a new player could even compete in Waterway. It requires highly-specialized items. So specialized, that I don't even bother playing it, and I have a reasonable collection.
    If leagues become pay-to-play, then I predict that player-constructed deck leagues will have horrible attendance.

    B) Pre-constructed deck variety
    I'd love to see a little variety in the pre-constructed leagues, instead of just mirror matches.
    For example, perhaps you could choose between 2 different decks before each match. Maybe one could be a 'hero' deck, and the other could be a 'monster' deck that is balanced against it.
    Mirror matches would still happen a lot (whenever players choose the same decks), but it would add a little variety into the game.

    Or, another idea is to have a pre-made party, plus a static set of items from which to customize that party.
    This way, you could have a level playing field, and still allow for some minor deck-construction skills. You can even shake things up each month by changing the set of available items.

    C) Tie-breaking
    I don't think the current tie-breaking system is working. I see a lot of chat activity, where players are agreeing to match their tie-breaker points, just so they can stop playing.
    Nobody wants to farm tie-breaker points.

    As a suggestion: You should probably just reward players based upon their win-loss record.
    4-0 will give the best reward; 3-1 will give next best reward; etc.
    By doing this, everyone will be highly motivated to actually win games. (The only problem I see, is that after the first 4 games, someone could queue up and purposefully lose games to help others.)

    Also, if someone went 0-4, then you should allow them to keep playing until they get 1 win, and then toss a rare chest to them. (You gotta help the new players. Plus, you need players to keep the game queue alive.)

    D) Entry fee.
    Leagues are really fun. But I fear that attendance will die off once leagues are monetized. If everyone stops playing, then so would I.
    I would prefer to have less rewards (such as no pizza) if it meant that leagues would remain free.
    Or, maybe you could reward gold during the week, and pizza during the weekends (and holiday events).

    If you absolutely must monetize leagues, then at least allow club members to play for free.

    E) Match clock
    You might want to add another 2-3 minutes to each players clock.
    For example, Artifact Anarchy can take more than 10 minutes, simply because there is a lot of healing possible.
    Even experienced players are hitting the limit.

    Ideally, you could add 1 minute to a players clock for each VP they have earned. This way, a player who is already winning a long game, won't lose due to time.

    In summary: I think the leagues need to be a bit more new-player friendly.
    As an experienced player, I want to see a lot of people online. I don't want to be a big fish in a small pond.
    Neofalcon and Maniafig like this.
  8. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    ABCD - agreed.
  9. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    Played Geomancers last night and... It's actually a fun map, but takes way, WAY too long for a 2-hour league. I signed up as soon as it opened, and played as fast as I could (2 matches ended with 8 min left on my clock) and it still took over 1.5 hours to finish 4 games. And that's far from the worst case scenario: 20 min * 2 players * 4 games = 160 minutes, and we only have 180 minutes total including the signup period, leaving just 20 minutes to fill the pod and wait in queue. I'd rather see a 30 min timer and give us a week to play 10-20 games.

    Duplicate figures: I agree with others that giving 80 pizza is too much (especially on top of the 50 pizza and two epic chests you're also getting). Some alternatives:
    • Only give 5-10 pizza
    • Give a token that can be redeemed for a (normal) figure
    • Give a random figure the player doesn't already own (selected from ones currently for sale)

    League fees: Once you start charging for leagues, how about having a "Free Trial" option where you join and play as normal, but you don't get any prizes (or drastically reduced prizes, definitely no pizza). This way players can see if they're ready for a league before they spend any money on it.
    Dugrim, Megadestructo and neoncat like this.
  10. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Great idea!

    I definitely want to see some leagues with pizza entry fee, for whatever it's worth, as long as there're enough other players who would participate.
    Megadestructo likes this.
  11. Megadestructo

    Megadestructo Shark Card

    I do like the idea of this right off the bat.
  12. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    And I'm fourthing that one. Possibly it's another way to get more folks in there for the competitors to face.
  13. Dugrim

    Dugrim Orc Soldier

  14. Avarice

    Avarice Goblin Champion

    I figured I'll try to get in on the free pizza thing today. The Geo's are too long, but then that's already known.

    What I think is interesting is that if the better players in the pod play early and win a bunch there's no more incentive for them to play.

    However, the poor players keep banging away, hoping for tiebreak points.

    Seems to me the right answer is to sit out the first 30 minutes or so and let the good players get their wins. Then play everyone else.

    If I'm right, it's not very balanced.
  15. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    Unless the best players tie and play lots and lots of games for tie-breaker points.
  16. Avarice

    Avarice Goblin Champion

    The league I'm in right now there's a clear #1. Is that common?
  17. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    Yes, but I don't know if it's more common than ties.
  18. Avarice

    Avarice Goblin Champion

    Clear 1st and 2nd place this time too. 2 hours left in the league.

    The other three people in the pod are an aggregate 1-10.
  19. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    In 6 of my 9 leagues I've tied for wins, 4 of them for 1st/2nd place.
  20. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

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