Get More Stuff: Changes are Coming to the Card Hunter Economy

Ideally, every mode of play would give exactly the same rewards and players could play what they wanted to and not worry about being penalized for it. Practically though, this is impossible to achieve. The modes are just too different to ensure an equal distribution of loot.

Given that one mode ultimately has to give better loot than the other, it makes more sense to have multiplayer grant more rewards than single player. This is because single player takes place in a vacuum but multiplayer is dependent on having a community.

You could be the only card hunter playing single player at a given time and you wouldn't know the difference. But multiplayer lives and dies based on its playerbase. A smaller player base means increased queue times, less balanced matchmaking, and less variety in your opponents. The entire experience gets worse as the playerbase shrinks.

This is why it's so important to avoid losing multiplayer enthusiasts to single player grinding. Single player doesn't need to be sacrificed. But it shouldn't be so lucrative that people who would otherwise play multiplayer feel compelled to play single player for gold.

 

I'd say MP is more important because there players affect each other. The more, the better, because at higher ratings it's hard to find opponents which is a huge problem. In SP, what others do won't affect you at all.

 

I understand that the health of MP is reliant on the health of MP. What we don't know is if the health of MP is equal to the health of Cardhunter. That's what I meant.

It's all well and good that MP has improved for all the MP players, and I'm happy for them, but that usually does come with a sacrifice to SP. That sacrifice is evidenced by the FS nerf (which I personally don't care about), the now near impossibility of some 1HP quests, the removal of SP content (this one I really hate even though it's a few maps on low level adventures), the Randimar/Daily Deal changes which diminish the hunt, new exciting forms of MP like QD and Leagues, PvP Co-op, which I wanted Co-op to be campaign based. Those examples are off the top of my head and looking at that list makes me sad that all I can think of that SP has gotten is the Loot Fairy, which is great, btw. Making SP even less lucrative for those of us who don't even make as much as the claims say we do is disappointing. And Loot Fairy 2.0 isn't much of a draw.

I spend money regularly on the Club Membership since I like the hunt so much and want to maximize my returns since I can't play hours and hours each evening. But, as I suspected, that love of the hunt has started to diminish now that the game is becoming more gathering gold to buy that item instead of playing and enjoying the hunt. It's even worse as I realize that I rarely even need any of the 10 new weekly and 1 daily Legendary items that show up in the shop. I'd rather find that "useless" Legendary than buy it. One case feels like I earned it, the other feels like... boredom. So I ask myself, what am I gathering gold for when I'd rather be hunting? Why hunt when I'm better off visiting the shop? Am I playing Diablo III? Why does MP get all the attention? Why am I paying for MP to get the lion's share of improvements? Why am I paying for this let alone playing it? Maybe that's why I haven't completed my SP quests. Deep down I know that once I do. I'm done. And I don't want to be done.

The lack of SP attention, the balance changes, and these changes are discouraging to me as a SP player and spender. But I've been trying to be optimistic for the sake of CH and the MP players since they appear to be the majority and most outspoken here on the forums. I just don't know if the cross-section of players here is representative of the player base as a whole.

 

(emphasis mine)

• "the removal of SP content" - this had literally nothing to do with MP, and it was done for the health of SP. We removed a few of the lowest-success-rate maps in order to make the game more accessible. This is work that needs to be done, and we're doing it, and I don't think it's evidence of singleplayer needs being sacrificed for multiplayer.
• "I wanted Co-op to be campaign based" - Co-op for the campaign is on our list. Or do you specifically want there to be no coop play for PvP? Anyway, nothing is being sacrificed, again.
• "all I can think of that SP has gotten is the Loot Fairy" - Mauve Manticore 1-4, the AotA expansion... Remember, PvP didn't get anything new for something like 7 months after launch, all the way until the expansion brought leagues and new cards.

I think some folks in this thread are speaking more dramatically than need be. Keep in mind that the team right now is approximately 1.5 people doing everything. Increasing multiplayer rewards in order to improve the health of multiplayer doesn't come at any cost to singleplayer, because doing so is what, a few minutes adjusting values? The kinds of things people want for singleplayer (more quests, randomized dungeons, new expansions) require a lot more work. It's not like we're doing one at the expense of the other—these changes are just obviously going to happen on different timescales.

Also, isn't the ability to replay missions endlessly a net positive for singleplayer?

None of the changes discussed in this announcement, except maybe the kobold change if you're reaching, actually diminish singleplayer in any way. Try to keep that in mind, please.

Finally... if you're the kind of player who dislikes the shop changes (presumably because you think items should only be acquired as drops?) ... then why would you care about the kobold change?

If I'm being a broken record, then I apologize. I don't mean to police what can or can't be said about these changes. I'd just like folks to be a bit less disgruntled, because I'm not sure it's warranted. Cheers!

 

Totally correct. But the whole hand-wavy justification (which I do realize has been over-inflated by non-BM commentors) is that we need to force players over to MP / stop SP grinding.

(And anyways, that has mostly already happened with the balance changes. I've played more MP in the last couple of weeks than in several months previous to the balance changes. As much as I'll be pedantic on the forums, I'm itching to get my claws on 2+ epics in the MP Ladder. ^_^)

 

"SP content removal" - You're right. I unfairly added it to the list. But it's still a change I didn't like. I believe the justification was that people fail a lot on those maps. What's the next area to be chopped because it's too hard?

"campaign based Co-op" - I thought that was the Co-op that everyone wanted. I was disappointed to find it wasn't what was recently announced. I'm glad to hear that the campaign based version is on the list. To bring back an earlier point made about the MP community. At least MP has a community! Campaign-based Co-op would give the SP folks a chance to have an in-game community. And to answer your question, of course I want there to be Co-op PVP. But look at all the other forms of PVP there are!

"Loot Fairy" - A0tA I had to pay for. What on the list of MP improvements did the MP people have to purchase to play? Pizza Leagues is the only thing I can think of. Are there still pizza leagues? Mauve Manticore is a fair point. I forgot about those because I only play them until I complete them.

So you touched on the things that had flaws, but what about all those cool things that MP got? Was QD, Coop, Leagues adjusting numbers? I know the team is tiny. I'm not asking for things immediately. I don't know what you know and all I can go off of is what I've seen.

The ability to replay missions is nothing new. I'm not sure what your point is. MP can be replayed as well.

My point wasn't about these changes alone. To take my comments in the vacuum of the topic of this thread when I was addressing other things in addition seems unfair. It's the trend that I see. Plus as I wrote out the list of all the cool stuff MP has gotten lately I got frustrated.

I apologize if I'm being over-dramatic but it seems around here that the squeaky wheel gets the grease. I also don't see the problem in expressing my dissatisfaction with the latest trends. I see all this talk of trying to drive people away from SP to go to MP and it riles me up!

Besides, it's not a regular thing that I do. And it won't become one.

 

I don't know much about the motivation behind leagues nor the work that went into them - that was before I was on the team - but I know that the infrastructure was the biggest piece, and that was done in parallel with all the SP content for the expansion. Coop implementation currently is a a work in progress, and campaign coop is on the roadmap, so you should really be heartened by its presence in MP as it indicates we're making progress toward what you want.

I'm talking about a new feature that isn't in the game yet, but was discussed somewhere on the forums, allowing players to replay exhausted adventures endlessly. It's in our commit log if you check that. It doesn't excite me terribly, but it's an example of a strict increase in loot-acquiring options for singleplayer grinders.

I see @Stexe has set a dangerous precedent. Fear not: even the squeakiest wheel can be ignored at times
And again, my issue isn't with what you express—I just wanted to allay your fears, because I think the alarmism was unfounded.

I'd just say, until we announce something like "screw singleplayer, we never want to do anything for it again," maybe don't assume that.

 

I want to make clear that my post wasn't so much a threat to BM. It's a commentary on how it seems posts/threads (not necessarily BM posts and threads) regard MP to be the only thing that matters and SP is that other thing over there that doesn't matter if it gets screwed up as long as MP gets what it wants/needs. I'm not skilled at making posts in defense of something as I tend to not communicate my intent well when I get that way. And I certainly am not trying to say down with MP and that SP is all that matters. That would be hypocritical. I'm saying, 'hey, do we get another turn?'

Hey, in the end, all I'm trying to do is let you all know that there are people who care about SP as much as others care about MP.

Edit: And it seems if it isn't done with a little flavor it gets passed over by more pressing matters.

 

Just Stexe?

 

Hey, I was not running Vibrant Pain and whirlwinds BEFORE it was cool.

Huh, I always thought the greasy squeak gets the wheel. Kind of a morbid thought (poor rodents??), I suppose that version makes more sense.

Sometimes you have to speak up before anything changes. And I mean, a long time before anything changes.

 

You heard it here folks !!! ABANDON ALL HOPE

 

Sorry if my posts were misleading. I don't want people to feel pressured to play a game mode they don't feel like playing, period. The only people I want to drive from SP to MP are those who prefer to play MP, but still play SP for itemization reasons. I think people should play whatever they want without needing to worry about suboptimal loot. Currently, I feel like it's mostly multiplayer enthusiasts who feel forced to play single player for better loot, rather than the other way around. The biggest reasons for this right now are the loot fairy and kobold farming. The loot fairy gives a better reward to time ratio than any other event in the game. To my knowledge even most dedicated multiplayer enthusiasts still play the campaign for the loot fairy, and some of them do it daily. Fortunately, you can only get the loot fairy once or twice a day, so it doesn't suck up too much time and it's probably ok. The problem with kobold farming is that there's no limit to how long you can do it. It is by far the single best way to get gold in this game. Nothing else comes close. If you really want to buy an item from the daily deal and need a lot of gold, you'll be farming kobolds all night even if you'd rather play multiplayer. And in my opinion, it's not like the battles are particularly fun compared to the other SP battles. People just grind them as a means to an end. I don't have the data, but I bet the kobold maps have been played more than all of the other maps in the game combined.

 

@Scarponi
*whistles*

 

False. Drop 50g for 3x Rare+ chests in league is best time/reward ratio in game.

 

Also, as I've mentioned before, grinding MP is hands down the best way to get items, which is what most SP players want. While SP is (supposedly still) hands down the best way to get gp, which is what most MP players want...

The changes to first playthrough and quests will certainly help, and I guess if that quest reset button Jon made can be pushed daily, it'll effectively amount to grinding rare chests I guess. ^_^

 

Haha, yeah sorry, low blow. More just a reflection on the fact that sometimes players tend to speak

to make a point, but it's usually well intentioned. To some respect I like that people are passionate about this game even if it regrettably can cause more forum drama than is usually necessary.

 

So, these changes are all pretty interesting and all, but I think the real question is, are there going to be some more Halloween figures at Cuthberts?

T'is the season, no?

 

The most important question is, if we get a chance to buy last years items to be able to complete our collections if we were too poor at that time to buy some shinies.

 

I'm not sure how I feel about this. I guess it's okay. What I would prefer is a button to reset the story with Gary, Melvin, and Karen. That would be cool to see again.

 

MP players probably grind SP for more gold rather than better loot, and it looks like that is about to change. I don't mind MP getting the best loot across the board, and I hope it draws and holds new MP players. I doubt it will persuade many SP-only players to cross over, but it might draw a few. Or at least hold them for a few extra chests after a league.

Considering the individual effort involved, I think the Loot Bandit should guarantee an epic (same as 6th MP win). I'd like SP to have a guaranteed daily epic even if it's a lot of work to find.

I wish you'd consider reinstating these, particularly because of their usefulness in The Nudie Run. New players not recognizing the Guard Dog as the most dangerous opponent was probably the culprit. Replacing it with a Goblin Shaman and adjusting the number of Goblin Grunts (if needed) would reinforce the lesson that Reflect Missile is tough on mages, and give an inkling of what the shaman can do for Bluk.
As for repetitive: Repetitive is an SP thing, and this is an SP adventure.
Nudie or not, they're usually desperate for drops at these levels.