Flanking Move not working correctly when played by a group?

Discussion in 'Bugs' started by PhoenixTheHunter, Mar 24, 2018.

  1. PhoenixTheHunter

    PhoenixTheHunter Lizardman Priest


    as indicated by the question mark in the title I'm not sure if you would count this as a bug or just some (at least weird) interpretation of the card text. But decide yourself.

    The following situation happened to me today: I was playing the first CM adventure and one group on the second Map (some post about new CM monsters say it must have been the bowmen but that doesn't really matter) uses Flanking Move. Checking the Wiki yield that in the pre-CM era no group had access to Flanking Move, only single characters like AI Wizard 1 & 3. Now that a group can flank, the card's text is either not precise enough (this would only be yet another unclear card text) or does not match the game's behavior anymore (this would clearly be a bug). I admit, I haven't managed to beat the adventure yet and hence, I'm a bit frustrated, but at some point this group flanked me and ONE minion moved near me (no minion of this group was dead at that time). If I flank an enemy, I don't gain Cantrip, but the group did, probably either because not EVERY minion moved near me or because the one minion that is crucial for the Cantrip-detection (the first or last of the group?) didn't move near me (I don't know the game's internal logic, hence, I don't know how the Cantrip-detection works exactly, but I guess there are only those two possibilities).

    I don't believe that I would have survived the map if the move hadn't gained Cantrip, but that's not the point. My interpretation of Flanking Move for groups is: "If no minion end(s) this Move adjacent to an enemy, this card gains Cantrip."

    TL;DR: A group can play Flanking Move and gain Cantrip although a minion of the group moves near an enemy. For me this qualifies as "the group ending it's move adjacent to the enemy" and the card gaining Cantrip is a bug.

    Greetings Phoenix
    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.
  2. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    That's the kicker. I'd guess it's the instigating minion (if you've played MM's you'll remember that when playing a move for a group one minion "plays" the card, and then all the others share in it).

    Group special moves are just funky. I find group Violent Spin even more disconcerting. Rather than saying it's working as intended or not, my guess is the best statement is that it's probably not working as planned, but it is working as acceptable from the dev standpoint. But, that's only a guess.
    DARK MAGIC and ParodyKnaveBob like this.
  3. PhoenixTheHunter

    PhoenixTheHunter Lizardman Priest

    But doesn't a group Violent Spin just trigger the push-effect for every minion's move (Mutant Gunners tend to act this way if I remember correctly)? That's somehow what the card says (although the same character may be pushed several times by different minions and can easily move 8 or 10 cells in a perfect scenario or the minions can move in a group, push each other and sum up the movement points if the AI is clever). The problem with Flanking Move is that the minion that moves near you may immediately (melee) attack you (in case it hadn't attacked before) just because of the Cantrip of his minion buddy and this is exactly what Flanking Move should NOT permit. That isn't a good argument when it comes to bowmen as they (also) use ranged attacks, but - as I said - it's a general question about this (and as you mentioned perhaps also other) move card(s).

    Ok, THAT'S a really poor argument, but sorry I'm a software engineer myself. If I don't want an effect I can simply change it. And in this particular case it is a change as simple as a change from a logical OR to a logical AND (or vice versa depending on the concrete implementation): Adding cantrip if minion1 OR minion2 OR ... moved to a cell with no enemies around -> Adding cantrip if minion1 AND minion2 AND ... moved to a cell with no enemies around. And changing this card would (probably) not side-effect any other card as this Cantrip-effect is quite unique. Hence, the only question would be if the devs perhaps intended this version of a group Flanking Move.

    EDIT: And in case the general pattern of playing a group move card is to execute the exact same process for every minion independently, Then keep the card's text but change the implementation is a way, that Cantrip is the default and if any minion moves near an enemy the Cantrip is canceled (and if several minions move near an enemy the Cantrip would just be canceled several times but 'false AND false is still false'). For the players this would make no difference but groups would respect the "adjacent to an enemy"-thing.
    Last edited: Mar 25, 2018
    ParodyKnaveBob and Scarponi like this.
  4. Fanturluche

    Fanturluche Thaumaturge

    The card behaviour you described seems coherent with the text.
    If you don't end this Move adjacent to an enemy, this card gains Cantrip.
    Since it is an end-of-movement effect, it applies to every minion in the group (like Positioning Move). So if any minion finishes their movement away from all ennemies, the card gains Cantrip and Gary can play again. At least that is my interpretation and I have not tested it.

    (As far as I can remember, start-of-movement effects only apply to the first minion of the group)
    Last edited: Mar 28, 2018

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