A Look At Vengeance

Discussion in 'Castle Mitternacht Playtest' started by Potato Priest, Oct 1, 2016.

  1. I was inspired to create a vengeance build because I realized that with 2 vengeance (and/or) 1 vengeance and 1 sparkling cloth, you can step all the way around behind an enemy when you are hit.

    Here is the party:
    Argyle
    Level 18 Human Warrior

    Cellulose
    Level 18 Elf Priest

    Kazakdron
    Level 1 Dwarf Warrior


    Battle 1

    I was up against Testlum, who used a lot of boo! And entangling roots to shut down the vengeance horror. Despite this, there was still generally too much disincentive for him to damage me,as the dwarf had antimagic skin to purge the boo! and the priest had sacred shroud to regenerate the party. Testlum managed to kill the priest when she was rooted with a barrage of punishing bolts, but in the process he healed the 2 warriors up to full by the robes. At this point I was actually using The Inquisition in place of Talissa’s Trident. The dwarf managed to kill Testlum’s priest with a vicious thrust gained by howl, and the second wizard follwed soon after.


    Battle 2

    Vengeance V. Acid

    This was My first test against another really and truly OP build. I was up against Pyrious, with his massive investigate, acid spray, and Dissolusion deck. In this battle, I was able to kill one of his wizards early through the application of a Visious thrust. This made me consider my decision to equip Talissa’s Trident Worthwhile. To his credit, Pyrious was able to kill my priest with alarming speed, but by focusing on one wizard at a time and standing on his acid to trigger vengeance I was able to assassinate all the wizards. This was definitely a close game, however.


    Battle 3

    Walpurgis Night
    Playing against a person whose name I forgot before I wrote it down. (Fantarluche perhaps?)
    In the first round my priest drew Walpurgis night and I played it. It was a mistake. I performed poorly in my new zombie forms, never quite aquiring critical vengeance. I also made some misplays with vengeance and path of knives.


    Battle 4

    Playing Against Shillegagh Law, I was stopped by his ability to turn me into a zombie and his relentless cause fumbles that ate all my clever backstabs.


    Battle 5

    Playing against Testlum, lost to nimbus spam and defender’s block.

    Battle 6

    Playing against Pyrious' acid mages again, I was able to get a good start using an all out attack vengeance on one of his wizards. With the occasional entangling roots from the priest, I was easily able to close on and kill all 3 of his wizards.

    The main strength of vengeance is its incredible ability to cross difficult terrain when stacked. It's main weaknesses are defender’s block and cause fumble, as, similar to the classic nimble strike deck, my build relied on hitting with attacks from behind. Vengeance is a very strong card, particularly against wizards, as it allows you to close on them effortlessly even across difficult terrain and they lack sufficient melee defenses. Vengeance cannot deal with nimbus, however, and generally this build performed poorly against priests. Overall, I think that Vengeance is a little too accessible. Even from the perspective of damage alone, Captain Cedric’s vow would be an unusually good weapon, but when you add the kind of mobility that vengeance provides, it becomes almost unquestionably the best one minor weapon in the game, without even a close second. In general, the way it stands currently, this build is unbeatable against wizards, but easy for priests to disrupt.
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2016
  2. I forgot to mention it, but Talissa's Trident is also AMAZING. It has more step power than a bejeweled Shortsword, and 2 vengeance. I am so in love with this weapon that I am afraid to criticize it. While this weapon is clearly better than many current in-game weapons, It may be balanced compared to the things that other classes get.
     
    Flaxative likes this.
  3. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Thank you, I am putting you down for 6 games (and will keep counting as you play more). I really appreciate your detailed feedback, this is exactly what I am looking for.

    (And yes, Talissa's Trident is awesome ;) )
     
  4. Battle 7: Playing against Vitreo, Lost to ancient grudge. I was able to do some dramatic close and kill missions, but the fact that vengeance's movement triggers before the movement by winds of war ensured that he was able to keep me at bay with wind and telekinesis long enough to kill my characters with grudge. Telekinesis and winds of war tend not to perform very well vs. step attacks, but they do work against vengeance, while roots, which utterly destroy steps, do give vengeance one final full-power move.
     
    wereviper likes this.
  5. Trying a new Build:
    Argyle
    Level 18 Human Warrior

    Vanderbilt
    Level 1 Human Warrior

    Slacker
    Level 1 Human Warrior

    As you can see, the principle is to swarm your enemy and maul them with the immenst bludgeoning capability of the stolen torch.

    Battle 1:
    Up against VermillionOcean, I was killed partly by a misplay in which I allowed his warrior and priest to gang up on one of my warriors, and partly because I failed to hunt down his first warrior after a severe beating.
     
  6. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Thanks, I have you at 8!
     
  7. Battle 2: Up against VermillionOcean again, was killed by double all out vicious thrust from a werewolf and then general cap point dominance on his part.

    Battle 3: Up against Frostguard, Defeated by continual Boo! and the devastating Vampire's kiss+inquisition bolt. First he would open up with a boo, and then if he could pin the warrior down, he would kiss it, and then use an inquisition bolt for sometimes up to 17 damage.
     
  8. While stolen torch may be am exceptionally good weapon, the build I was using is probably too extreme. I think I may throw in a human priest for leadership (get rid of those lame torch attacks) and mass frenzy.
     
  9. Battle 4:

    Pyrious tried to shut down my build with a lot of walpurgis night, but I was able to quickly close on the real damage of the party (the inq. bolt wizard) and take her out with a mighty bludgeon that I had from the early game. After that it was form vs. form, and every Walpurgis night he played gave me substantial card advantage.
     
    Flaxative likes this.
  10. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    I have you at 11!
     
  11. Switched out one warrior for a priest.
    Battle 5:
    Fighting against Karnal1, I was defeated by his Walpurgis night giving me zombies and vampires with weak card draw against werewolves.

    Battle 6: Playing against NickHuang, defeated by incredible step mobility of a 3x elf warrior team. I got some good hits, but their mobility allowed them to slay one warrior at a time as a team effort and left me powerless to escape.

    The Priest's Deck:

    Terrible Sal
    Level 18 Human Priest
     
  12. Battle 7: Played against Pyrious on a map where the starting area has blocked terrain on 3 sides. I was able to cross the entire map in 2 turns, chasing his wizards back into their starting pen and annihilating them before their plentiful Ancient Grudges could charge up to full power. Lava pool did a large amount of damage, but I managed to kill all his characters with all 3 of mine still alive, partly due to the priest's timely healing rays. The mighty bludgeon was with me this day.
     
  13. I think I will end work with the mighty bludgeon deck here. I am impressed with the power of the Stolen Torch, particularly as you can triple-wield it for 9x mighty bludgeons per character, but it really plays fairly similarly to the Powerful Sword, just a little more min-maxed. The real key to any success at all with this build was using all those team runs/dashes, as the character who lacked bludgeons at the moment could send the other after the wizards using their deck. Like many zerg rush builds, it performed beautifully against parties without melee defenses (blocks, hardcore armor, Vampire's kiss, or Boo!) but when it was exposed to these things, it failed. Although I set out to establish that the stolen torch needs to be redone, I think I ended up proving that it is at, if not a little bit behind the power curve of the update. Depending on what happens post-update, I may be playing this in the regular game, (Stolen Torch is an UNCOMMON), so watch out, wizards!
     
    Flaxative likes this.
  14. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Thansk, 14 games!
     
  15. I've been going through the SP campaign with the new cards, and a few new options for domination are available, particularly against swarms. Yes, Flaxative, I know this isn't what you want me to test.
    1. If you Vampire's Kiss a swarm with a large hand, there is a high likelihood that one or more of the creatures will die to their antisocial tendencies. This can be quite amusing to watch.
    2. If you wait until a swarm has expended their actions then play Walpurgis Night, it almost gives you a free turn. You do, however, run the risk of Loner.

    Of course, B00! performs ridiculously well on all sorts of bosses (except Blizzy), and for some of those long campaign battles (Demon Portals in particular) Ancient Grudge can build up quite a large amount of damage. However, none of these things is as abusive as firestorm, so I think that in general, this update won't mess up SP too much.
     
    Rohndil and 40c_rudy like this.
  16. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    It's not that I don't want to hear it, or that I begrudge you taking the time to test it. It's just that I can't give epic chests for it :)
     
    Potato Priest likes this.
  17. So, I have been thinking about the fact that zombie form is a drawback as well as a boost, and I think it should be the same for all the form cards. Even though the direct and primary effects of these cards are all positive, there is a distinctive negative side also. (More negative than the fact that wind dancer makes you more vulnerable to punishing bolts, for instance.) All of these cards replace your original hand, and that's not purely a good thing. Aside from Mindless Battlerage, there are not any other boosts that can be harmful in a normal scenario. This makes them seem to me to belong in the double-sided category with Blind Rage and its ilk.
     
  18. This change would mean that gene therapy would be a viable treatment for the victors of Cardstock, and just more viable in general as a counter to Walpurgis night.
     
    Lucky Dice likes this.
  19. Zacharianthi

    Zacharianthi War Monkey

    On that note, while messing around before getting down to testing, one match I zapped my own wizard with Genetic Engineering and it zombified him. Meaning he drew zombie cards as a squishy wizard. Essentially shut him down for the next round.
     
  20. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    I think you'll be really sad when your radiation attacks turn your enemies into vampires and werewolves. :)
     

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