Why The Lunginator is one of the best weapons in the game

Discussion in 'Deck Building' started by Ector, Feb 23, 2015.

  1. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    So, that was another 75% winrate out of a 16 games run. I think the way this build is setup is pretty solid for this map pool too, although some maps worry me somewhat (especially thinking about Lions and Koi).

    I think I'll try implementing a change suggested to me some time ago by @Drakkan next. Will keep you updated about the results.
    Juxtapostion and Sir Veza like this.
  2. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    More games, 3/4 won

    1) vs 1-1- on Lions. Slow first round as usual. Beast advances towards side VS, and opponent is fool enough to charge in with his priest. Buffed Unnerving Strike + Powerful Hack = dead priest. His wiz tries to do whatever he can with magma and fire spells, but my team moves nullify his efforts. I manage to get close to him with buffed priest and a single blow brings him down to 7 hp. The warrior desperately tries to achieve something, but soon enough the opponent realizes there's little he can do at this point and concedes the gg.

    2) vs 2 elf war 1 priest on Lions. A good example of why you shouldn't commit too much unless you know what you're doing. I move priest to the side, near VS. Wiz to middle, in a position where she can fire off bursts. Beast towards the middle covering the Wiz. One of his wars has an energizing move, so he goes right onto the priest. He didn't have enough to kill my character, nor he was expecting the priest to be loaded with attacks. Sundering Strike + Fiery stab + Ember burst = enough to kill the war, with my priest badly hurt but certainly alive. Early gg comes in a matter of seconds.

    3) vs Cult of the Bejeweled on Temple. This is a tough one. He manages to strike my wiz down almost immediately. Can't do much about it if my opponent draws enough moves to jump on my guys right from round one, and I don't have an awesome draw to resist/respond. Couldn't do much to prevent this defeat.

    4) vs 2 human priests 1 elf war on Dojo. Very clude exchange of blows right from the get go. Lo and behold, his elf warrior manages to injury my priest, but priest hits back hard and takes down his warrior, also thanks to couple spells from my wiz. One of his priests goes down fast. Last priest manages to be pretty deadly, taking down Beast who is out of cards. With only 2 VPs left for victory and superior numbers, taking the game is not too hard.
  3. Fifjunior7

    Fifjunior7 Hydra

    How much has your rating changed since this Ban?
  4. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    With my previous 1-1-1 build (basically the same as this one, but with a stabby/mobile elf warrior instead of The Beast), my rating would fluctuate quite a lot between high 1400s and low 1600s. My average ranking would have been about 1530-1560, I would say.

    Since I switched to the current build, my ranking has stabilized between the mid 1500s and low-to-mid 1600s. I occasionally still plummet below ~1550, especially when I happen to lose a game vs somebody with a much lower elo, but otherwise I'm very stable in the 1550-1650 range.

    That being said, I think I've played no more than 40 games with this new build, so maybe I've been generally lucky with my games? Time will tell, I'm still tweaking the build further, so we shall see if the build really is that stable and/or my rating can go much higher than that.
  5. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    I tweaked my wiz to be way more focused on bursts and control. We'll see if this proves to be more effective. For now, it's 4/4 victories

    1) vs 2 war 1 priest on Koi. This was fast. Hot spot under human war's feet, human war uses lunging bash to get off of it, Beast lunging bashes human war back onto hot spot. GG (not sure why some people is so eager to give up that quickly though)

    2) vs 2 war 1 wiz on Koi. Fairly interesting match. I feel like I was able to win only because my opponent was too anxious to attack in several occasions. Both his elf warriors are very mobile, as expected, but maybe even moreso. Fully buffed Beast almost killed one of them, but Jump Back saved him from certain doom. The other one drew Elven Maneuvers, which is always annoying. His wiz his very control-focused, turning the match in a very positional battle. None of us is fool enough to try and hold the single VS at all costs. A 10dmg lunging bash and a couple buffed bursts are enough to send the other warrior to sleep, but Beast goes down nonetheless. Last couple rounds are quite tense, even if after his wiz is dispatched, as I'm forced to move my Wiz close to his other warrior in order to get into TK range. He doesn't have enough to kill my wiz anyway, so a couple attacks from my priest are enough to take the game.

    3) vs 3 elf warriors on Temple. Won by Inactivity timeout

    3) vs 2 dwarf wiz 1 priest on Lions. My opponent is moderately aggressive. He tries to hold the side VS with priest, but Beast is fully loaded. Lunging bash + Quick Run + Powerful Hack is enough to dispatch the squishy elf. My opponent's wiz seem to be focused on burst/fire and deadly sparks, respectively. TK-in one of the right next to Beast is a great way to seal the deal quickly. GG

    4) vs Cult of the Bejeweled on Koi. This match up is very dependent on who gets the best round-1 hand, I suppose. He obviously insta-pushes me, one of his elves is on Elven Maneuvers, the other on Blind Rage. It's a scary scenario. Luckily I have good cards to work with. I unleash a full suite of buffed burst attacks + am able to TK away the Blind Rage one. Round 2 starts with me at an advantage, but this isn't a build you can fool around with. Luckily Beast has a Pushback Parry and priest a Defender's Block, so the subsequent joint attack is successfully deflected. One of the elves is loaded on blocks (Unnerving Strikes help with that). Elves inevitably fall one after the other. I've been lucky this time around, gg.
  6. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    Another set of games. 2/4 won. From 1694 to 1638 elo points in 2 games only. I guess that's what being a top rank player feels like (not that I consider myself a top rank player, but being inches from the 1700 mark felt really good).

    1) vs 2 elf war 1 wiz (same guy from previous set) on Dojo. Gotta play patiently, which also involves resisting the urge of reacting to his wizard's pokes. Warrior #1 goes in onto the Beast. I push him away with control spells. He moves war #2 too. Time to take action = Brutal Charge right on top of wiz on the opposite side of the map. Beast is out of cards, but his warriors are out of moves, and the wiz is cornered. Round number two is desperate attempt to save the wiz, so everyone's onto the Beast. I only drew a single Lunging Bash, better make it count (i.e. buff the dwarf like there was no tomorrow). Wizard is taken down by a buffed Arcane Burst, Lunging Bash hits one of his warriors hard. Beast goes down, but he dealt his damage. Wiz takes out one of the warriors easily, 2v1 on Dojo with a couple VPs left to be scored means I can get an easy victory.

    2) vs 1-1-1 on Lions. He can count on fully buffed elf warrior right from round 1 (Elven Maneuvers, Martyr's Blessing, Unholy Wellspring) and I have no purges in this deck, meaning I need to keep as far away from him as possible for at least a couple rounds. Luckily I do have control spells, but I manages to deal a big blow (19 dmg) on my priest. I manage to take down his priest with Beast's and my own buffed wiz combined efforts. His wiz is a mix of fire and control spells, so he's not really that dangerous if I play the positioning game right. He manages to finally taking my priest down with a brutal charge from his warrior, but his wiz is dead meat and I can take the game.

    3) vs Cardotron on Koi. Can't believe I lost this game. I guess there's not really much you can do when cheatotron draws all the good cards. Healer unit immediately casts Martyr's blessing on both Magic and Fighter unit. Magic unit has resistant hide, Fighter has impenetrable block (and, despite the Unnerving Strikes, he didn't miss a roll with it!). I manage to kill healing unit, but my guys fall one after the other. Next time cardo, next time.

    4) vs 2 war 1 wiz on Dojo. Played this one pretty poorly. My priest didn't draw any buffs whatsoever, which is a rare thing to witness, given the amount I have in his deck. Anyway, I try holding the center. My wiz can't deal much damage because of enemy armor/blocks. Priest takes some good damge (he used a wild run at the best possible time, props to my opponent) and a couple well placed hot spots are enough to finish both priest and Beast in as little as a couple turns. I guess everything which could went wrong, but my opponent did play well.
  7. Juxtapostion

    Juxtapostion Hydra

    Wow, Bandreus, would it be wrong to go back and like all of your posts, haha. Some pretty amazing chronicling of your success.

    If any one is interested I have been using a Poor Mans Beast before the recent map change to Celestial.
    Here he is:

    Poor Mans Beast
    Dwarf Warrior

    Basher's Delight
    Basher's Delight
    Eixocl's Hammer
    Crusty Helm
    Perilous Ringmail
    Hexagon Shield
    Jasper's Energy Boots
    Novice Ferocity
    Focus Bruising

    Not quite as focused and obviously lacks the armor that those legendaries can provide, and can't quite get through blocks, but it works out okay. I have tried out different shields and have not decided what works best. I think a shield with move blocks might be better. I have not used him too much on the new maps so I can't quite provide anything close to Ban's level of experience. Also, I was hovering around 1100-1200 when i was using him. So, the competition level was lower.
    ParodyKnaveBob, Sir Veza and Bandreus like this.
  8. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    Thanks for the kind words @Juxtapostion.

    Also thanks for sharing your own, definitely cheaper take on this style. I think that's definitely helpful, as I doubt more than a bunch of people are gonna have all the legendaries needed to perfectly copy my specific set-up.

    Luckily the chronicling aspect is at least entertaining, if not informative. I do enjoy posting the reports, so I'm glad people is welcoming that this much. Hopefully it also helps as many people as possible with devising their own builds.

    And btw, huge props to @Ector. I'm having quite some fun experimenting with the Beast and reporting back on the forums, something I wouldn't had started if it wasn't for him posting the gist of the build in the first place.

    If anybody has questions/suggestions/doubts of any kind, please feel free to drop a post in here. I can't promise I can implement every proposed change or answer every possible inquiry, but I shall do my best!
  9. I wonder a bit if maybe the Hawthorne effect is coming into play here. I could imagine knowing that you'll publicly post a write-up of each fight for literally pairs -- or even trios! -- of people to read could make you play more carefully that you might otherwise. But, hey, you're winning fights and a bunch of us (me very much included) are digging the reports, so it's all good. So good, in fact, that my muse has provoked me to almost literally sing your praises.
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2015
    Sir Veza likes this.
  10. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    What can I say. The fact anything remotely meaningful I have done inspired a song-parody (and an awesome one too!) already is one of the best CH-related things which could ever happen to me. Thanks a lot!

    As for the Hawthorne effect thing, I don't really think that's influencing me much. I.e. nobody is actively watching me, strictly speaking, so I don't feel any kind of pressure. I guess that's mainly because publishing the reports is something I'm willingly doing, rather then being forced into it by somebody else. As a comparison, I definitely feel more pressured whenever a bunch of people suddenly logs into the battle to spectate the game (which is happening more often, these days).

    Ofc, I do feel a bit bad/shy about reporting on games I lost (especially if I did in a pretty stupid way, which happened at least a couple times already), but I do try and chronicle every game I play, and mentioning whatever I feel had a serious impact on the final outcome (be it a mistake, a smart move from my opponent's, or anything in between). My hope is whoever is patient enough to follow the thread can gain at least some insight, of any kind. If they also enjoy the simple act of reading those reports, all the better.

    Yeah that's basically it.
  11. Jarmo

    Jarmo Snow Griffin

    Thanks for the detailed reports from the trenches, Bandreus, I appreciate you taking the time to create them! They make for very interesting reading and I appreciate your efforts in the service of the community!
    ParodyKnaveBob and Bandreus like this.
  12. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    Last set of games before the usual chit-chat post. 4/4 wins

    1) vs 3 priests on Dojo. This is a vamp build for the most part, better focus all I got on one target at a time. The fact 2 of them are dwarves and some Imp Nimbus and Defender's Blocks are involved make thins somewhat more complicated, but luckily no spam that I can see. I manage to hold at least a VS for the early and mid game. Fully buffed Beast + support moves from the other chars win me this game, basically. Beast chases the first one (which is retreating after some punishment) all the way to the other side of the map, dealing the finishing blow via a 14dmg Lunging Bash. Second dwarf vamp rushes onto wiz, but doesn't has enough to kill. Beast has enough moves to actually come all the way back and deal a 21dmg Mighty Hack. GG

    2) vs 2 dwarf war 1 priest on Koi. I'm a bit worried about this, so I opt to play defensively. Drawing Dash, Team on round one helps me get into the best possible position. I use stone spikes to prevent him from gangin' up on Beast, who's holding the VS. He has a block, reliable mail and priest is holding a Defender's Block, but better safe than sorry, right? Tons of TK being used, slowly chipping away at the dwarves' hp via terrain and burst attacks, + the damge he's inflicting onto himself via Blind Rage. He gets his priest too close, so I can easily corner him with Beast. A mighty hack + some damage from wiz are enough to kill him. I can't keep the dwarves away for too long, so let the slaughter begin. Beast is buffed, so is wiz. Couple attacks bring one of the dwarves in the red, but he's got tons of armor. Luckily I have that lonely Sundering Strike in my priest's deck. GG

    3) vs 1-1-1 on Koi. Another quick game. He brings his wiz forward. Beast has Surging Shield Block + Sparkling Cloth Armor and a tasty Mighty Hack. Challenge accepted: Beast step forward. His wiz casts cold spell, which isn't deflected. No problem, TKing Beast further + Unholy Frenzy on Beast. His wiz, sensing the danger, tries to Force Cannon Beast away. Surging Shield Block triggering = 15dmg Mighty Hack in yo' face. Hot spot under almost dead wiz and Beast Back onto VS (gusts of war) = early gg.

    4) vs 2 elf war 1 priest on Koi. This one was a LONG game (like ~30 mins). So long I don't even remember all that happened. Priest was bringing nimbus + some other tech, and elves are ultra mobile + the usual elven shenanigans. Also Crazy Sal's. Anyways, playing it as safe as I possibly can, just like every time I feel my opponent can easily cripple my ranks if I make the tiniest mistake. Controlling his elves away, using terrain attachments, conquering defensive positioning with Beast. I let him hold the VS, I don't need that as long as my wiz is safe. Also not much I can do but stay away from angry elf warriors when nimbus is ready to be cast. Lo and behold, I manage to take one of the warriors down, but the game will go on for quite some time still. Several turns later, my priest is down to 7hp, my wiz down to 3. But I manage to force his priest into running where I can snipe him with my wiz, and it's game. Definitely a tough one.
  13. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    Wow, that was an impressive run: 13 games won out of 16, i.e. over 80% winrate.

    As I mentioned in a previous post, I further tweaked my wiz to be more focused about burst attacks and control spells, including a good dash of terrain attachments, mainly in the form of Stone Spikes. Keep having very good feelings about the build (aside from the winrate), definitely am more confident about playing it properly, although I still play poor games at times (maybe I should work more on my turn-to-turn play).

    I have a couple ideas about how to tweak the wiz further, but I don't feel like it would make that huge a difference. The added control capability definitely works great together with the Beast, as I have more cards to move him around if I need to. Maybe the priest might need some more attention? Not sure, making up your mind about what needs to be changed is so hard when you get to fine-tuning the tiniest details.

    Ranking-wise: currently standing on top of 1677 elo points. I did hit 1694 at one point yesterday, but that was before losing two games in a row. As a result of that, I opted out of playing AI opponents. This build is not 100% reliable vs cheatotron and, despite the fact I can beat it most of the times, losing tons of rank whenever he draws an unbeatable hand definitely sucks.

    Anyway, I'm nearer and nearer to hitting 1700, so I want to at least achieve that. The Beast asks for it.
  14. Souleye

    Souleye Orc Soldier

    I love reading this. I own 2 Lungs myself and am running a similar deck, testing different things here and there. What's your current setup? And... How does one post one's deck without manually linking every card etc?
    Bandreus likes this.
  15. Jarmo

    Jarmo Snow Griffin

    Go to the dev log screen in the game (press F1 twice) and type the command
    This puts the necessary data into the clipboard and you can just paste it into a post. Type
    if you want to see the other commands.
  16. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    I posted my setup in the previous page. I implemented a couple changes on the wiz since then (those can be summed up to using Staff of a Million Embers + Blue Destruction instead of Fire Gode/Red Flame).

    Posting your builds to the forums is actually pretty easy:
    1. Go to the Keep
    2. Select the party you want to post to the forums
    3. Do not exit the keep
    4. Open the game console (press F1 twice)
    5. Type the following command: partyanddecksbbcode
    6. Your currently active party/decks are now copied to the clipboard
    7. Go to the forums and paste the goodness
    8. Done
    Definitely post your thoughts/impressions about how you feel your setup is working, any issues you might be facing etc

    edit: looks like Jarmo beat me to it. oh well...
    Juxtapostion, Pawndawan and Jarmo like this.
  17. Souleye

    Souleye Orc Soldier

    I keep changing it up all the time because my wiz seems to die all the time. Here's my current deck:

    Beast-ish guy
    Level 19 Dwarf Warrior

    Level 19 Human Priest

    Level 1 Human Wizard

    I just remade the wiz. He's probably got too many telekinesis...
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  18. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    Surging Shield Block is awesome with this build. The Beast definitely needs all the mobility he can get.

    As for the TKs, I have a lot on my wiz as well (I think... 8?). I don't think you can have too many TKs with this kind of set up, as playing 1-1-1 means you're very vulnerable to super aggressive warrior builds (especially when Martyr's Blessing/Elven Maneuvers/Nimbus are involves, as the build can't rely on purges or other debuff tools). Also, TKs come in handy when you really need to move the Beast and he's out of moves. Control spells are very versatile ofc. Winds of War/Gusts of War would be preferable, but those are also more expensive, so take that as a mindful compromise. Sadly, TK's range is too short for it to be really effective vs burrft teams, but you can still use it to position your own guys, plus I don't think I've seen a lot of burrft teams as of late anyway.

    As for the Wiz dying a lot, I do suffer the same problem too. But I guess that's an intrinsic thing with the build, pros and cons, you know. I learned I do need to put some thought into the positioning game, and that is usually enough to keep him relatively safe (most of the times, at least).

    Feel free to experiment more with your set up and report your thoughts/findings, this is getting more and more interesting. Also thanks for sharing ;)
  19. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    Another set. 2/4 won

    1) vs 3 dwarf priest on Dojo. As I said, sometimes I do play pretty poorly. This was a pure vamp build (and a very aggressive one). I should know how to properly deal with it. But alas, I try too hard to hold the VSs, and my opponent easily maintains the hp advantage. I'll say to my defense, he did draw something like 4 Defender's block in something like 3 turns, so there's that too. GG

    2) vs 2 war priest on Koi. Nimbus on round 1... okay? He steps forward aggressively, holds VS with dwarf war, other war on elven maneuvers ready to strike. I assume tactical positioning and land a couple good bursts. Round 2 = he moves in with dwarf, I TK him away. He moves in with elf war. I like how you can pretty much ignore elven maneuvers when you can kill the pimp in 2 blows. Round 3, Beast goes down (Faint Strike + double Frenzy Aura + MF. Ouch). Anyways, my wiz and priest are more than enough to take both his guys out before he can score the last VP. gg

    3) vs 3 priests (2x dwarves 1x human) on Dojo. Very tough match (aggro vamp + martyr's + nimbus + toughness + tons of mobility). I did learn the lesson from last time though, so I play nice and slow, very prudently. Vamps can't really accomplish much, if you keep them outside of touch/spear range, so playing TK/Team Moves at the right time is paramount. My wiz gets precedence over Beasts when buffs are concerned. Beast does go down, but so does his human priest. I keep playing the keep-away game, as my opponent's Blind Rages and my own bursts slowly chip away at the vamps hp. A starved Vamp is a dead Vamp, gg.

    4) vs 2 elf warriors 1 priest on Temple. This was a very close match (like, down to the wire). Ofc the warriors are ultra aggressive and mobile. One of them holds the VS. I feel confident enough to move Beast in, 2x Unnerving Strikes and a Mighty Hack are enough to kill even if unbuffed, but he's down to 7 hp so that maybe was a bit reckless of me. The other elf is chasing down my wiz, but I manage to keep away for the most part. Beast deals some good damage on enemy priest before finally falling (he fails a critical Defender's Block roll, bummers), but my own priest can finish the job. Even then, the surviving elf warrior has tons of moves, step attacks, stabs, and his Shimmering Aura + other armor his effective enough to absorb the damage of my unbuffed wiz spells. Can't keep him away forever, so he manages to kill the wiz and win. I think my play had some rough edges during the late game, but really my opponent played it almost perfectly, so big props to him.
  20. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    Another set of games. 1/4 won. Probably my worst performance since I started playing this build.

    1) vs Cult of the Bejeweled on Temple. Same stuff as usual, elves charging in mindlessly, tons of step attacks, blocks etc etc. Buffed wiz hits hard + controls warriors away as necessary. Buffed Beast lands a couple key Lunging Bashes. Team moves are key to making my guys survive as long as possible. Priest dies in the process, but the game is mine.

    2) vs 2 elf war 1 wiz on Lions. I manage to snipe his wiz from afar (he drew vulnerable, my wiz was buffed). One of his elves manages to corner and kill my caster though. This is really bad as, in a 2v2 on Lions, I can't prevent ultra mobile elves from playing hide and seek and win by either holding more VSs then I can, or catching my priest undefended with his pants down. I don't draw any of my mobility cards too, so I there's no way I can avoid defeat.

    3) vs 3 dwar wizards on Temple. Tough match up. 2 of the wiz are heavy on fire spells, including bursts, FSs and whatnot, the other one is more about control. I need to close this fast, or it's game over. I do pass on round 1 though, cause I immediately get getting out in the open w/o enough movement is suicide. Sadly enough, my wiz only draws an attack in two whole rounds, so he's struck down by a Mighty spark w/o being able to accomplish much. Beast manages to silence one of the wizards, but not drawing blocks or armor means I'm getting way too much dmg per round at that point. GG

    4) vs 2 priest 1 wiz, all dwarves, on Dojo. Another hard match. Entangling Roots + Volcano, very scary combination. Is wiz is obviously also very focused on control, meaning my chances of getting close to him are slim. Match also begins with one of the priests managing to land an Obliterating Chop on both my wiz and priest. Yeah, the game didn't start nicely at all. I manage to lend a couple big bursts before my wiz falls, but soon the Beast is alone. One of his priests goes down in two hits. I'm at the disadvantage, but the enemy wiz casts Path of Knives exactly as I draw Sparkling Cloth Armor :D. Beast hops in pain for something like 8 squares, goes behind the other priest, and executes him with a Mighty Hack. "I can do this" Beast thinks. Wiz is almost cornered, but he starts firing volcano after volcano, and I really can't avoid standing on the VS (he's one star away from victory) and I do get some damage despite all the armor I drew. I finally catches me with a couple more control spells and I have to concede.
    Juxtapostion likes this.

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