What's going on with PizzaAndCoffee?

Discussion in 'Guilds' started by Farbs, Nov 5, 2014.

  1. Farbs

    Farbs Blue Manchu Staff Member

  2. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    No clue. I know I've picked up a member from another guild that was inactive.

    Still looking for more members if people who are high rating and win ratio are looking!

    Also, how about some rewards for guild season winners? Heck, even 1 Epic chest per member would be more than enough. =)
  3. Vakaz

    Vakaz Guild Leader

    Sadly the guild leaderboards discourage broader guild recruitment. I've dismissed players from PoF in the past for this reason :p Since everyone playing MP in a guild contributes to their season rating, less-skilled players (or even less serious players) become a liability instead of an asset.

    While prizes would be cool, that would only further encourage power-guilds. And hey, maybe that's not a bad thing. But I feel bad whenever a new player in chat asks "Hey, how do I join a guild?" and my answer is "Go check out the guild section on the forums" as opposed to "run through my guild's initiation scenario"...
  4. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    I can definitely see the problems with encouraging "power-guilds" -- but a small bonus for winning (something that you can get in a less than 1 hour League game) probably wouldn't sway it too heavily except for those who are trying to read the top.
  5. neoncat

    neoncat Feline Outline

    or a longer tail of prizes
  6. Farbs

    Farbs Blue Manchu Staff Member

    We're way off topic here but:

    I've been thinking about not deducting points for losses. That way you can think of every member as an asset, as they can only make your score go up. Of course, they can also make your opponents earn more points than you by losing a lot.

    I could also create a secondary class of guild member who acts like a knave but keeps the points they earn.

  7. karadoc

    karadoc Hydra

    I like that idea that every player should be an asset. I guess the obvious down-side is that guilds with many players would have a very large advantage over small guilds. Maybe that's fair anyway, since large guilds would need to split their prize if they win anyway... but still, it I wouldn't want to just see the biggest guild win every time. Is there a cap on how many players a guild can have?

    By the way, one potential exploit in the current system (where loses cause guilds to lose points) is that a guild could choose to deliberately lower their rating before the start of a guild season so that they can win games more easily in the next season. I'm sure that would be a powerful strategy, but it's also a pretty ugly strategy that goes against the spirit of the game. - And it would be nullified by changing the scoring system to not deduct points for loses. So that's a plus as well.
  8. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    I don't get it. As soon as 1 season ends, the next one will start, there is no downtime. If you tank your guild's rating one month, you won't get any prizes that month either.
  9. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    You could, in theory, leave the guild, tank your rating, rejoin guild, beat easy players, and then get a much higher rating much faster.

    One thing I've found is that a lot of the guild rating has to do with how many players you have simply having above 50% win ratio (against other guild members) and those who play a lot. You could win pretty much every month if you had that... kind of like how it currently is...
  10. Janet

    Janet Guild Leader

    It may have something to do with the poor gaming attitude of their GM? I wanted to join Pizza&Coffee until he started swearing against me for loosing a game..
    Sir Veza, Fifjunior7 and Flaxative like this.
  11. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    There are are other numbers too between 0 and 1 to multiply point losses with when losing. If losses against guild players would cost 0.9 times as much as now, then it would also encourage playing more (and having more members in a guild) since there would be more to win than to lose from each game.
    Merdis, Magic Elves and Flaxative like this.
  12. Deepweed

    Deepweed Thaumaturge

    That actually appears to be a fantastic idea. An ideal number could be sought out to make the quantity of games matter as much as win rate does. That way, high rating can be achieved by a guild if both the quantity of games played and the win rate are at decent values. It would also mean solo guilds will not work (unless that player can play so so so frequently).
  13. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    At the time of this posting 3 of the top 6 guilds are solo guilds! The other 3 guilds have 25 members combined. Something should be changed.
    Robauke likes this.
  14. Merdis

    Merdis Orc Soldier

    I think that devs should consider implementing Lord Feleran's idea for the next season.
  15. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    One problem I've noticed is that it is largely based on having a large number of games played. Gains/losses don't level out fast enough as the calculation seems to be for a yearly total, not a monthly.
  16. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    It's definitely monthly based.

    Edit: There's just such a disparity between Guild v. Guild and Guild v. Non-guild wins and losses that it can do funky things. That and the level of point spread that can be won and lost in Guild v. Guild matches (I've seen more than 50 points won or lost in a match, compared to a max of 32 for the individual, in game, elo system.)
  17. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    I know it resets at each month. I'm saying that the FORMULA is for long term calculations (from year to lifetime). Having it reset every month means that there are huge jumps in rating without factoring in the number of games played. There should be some type of diminishing return on winning or losing in huge streaks to average it out a bit more. Let's say everyone has a 51% win ratio... then whoever plays the most will in theory win simply because they have more chances to win points. Would be nice if more casual players could have a chance.

    And yes, there is a huge disparity between guild vs. non-guild games. In theory you could tank your score against non-guild people (-1 if you manage to get at least 2 VP) and then play hard on guilded opponents (who should be easier since you're purposely lower Elo) and can give up to +40 for a blitz (you win with them getting only 0 or 1 VP).
  18. Merdis

    Merdis Orc Soldier

    This is another issue. Maybe it could be remedied by introducing another coefficient into the formula, which would depend on opponents rating (for example: old_formula*opponent's rating/1000). After all it is much harder to win against players from 1500+ than against newbies (0-1000), so maybe the guild should score slightly more in former case.
  19. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    Ahh, I understand what you're getting at now... that the original intention of the formula as long term vs. how it's being currently implemented.

    I'm not sure that I entirely agree that more games shouldn't equal more points. Ultimately the system should encourage more game play. That said I understand there needs to be some level of balance in that. However I will definitely say that whatever way it should be, it definitely does not simply favor more game play in the current system. Compare the win percentages, number of games played and the final points for the top three teams from Janizza.
    All three teams had identical win percentages, but the team with the most games (more than double the second most number of games) came in a distant third in the standings. In fact they were closer to 4th who had one tenth of the total number of games, than they were to 2nd.

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