[Utility] Collection Analysis

Discussion in 'Card Hunter General Chat' started by neoncat, Feb 1, 2014.

  1. After see this: http://wiki.cardhuntria.com/index.php?title=Items/Electroporter_Novice&oldid=9352
    I have no doubt that this is the problem. Also that happend in the version 3.144 July 11th, 2016 that you can check the resume here: http://wiki.cardhuntria.com/wiki/Version_History

    I also check @GriffTheThief uncommons with my uncommons, and we have the same items. Of course is not a problem from the tools. I already have the steam achievements but I got it before July 11th. If someone without the common collector can check if the number of commons required for common collector is minus 1, compared to the tools will be even more obvious .
    Sir Veza and ParodyKnaveBob like this.
  2. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Yeah, it is with the game not the tools. I'll be uploading the tools to my website in a few days if no one finds any other problems with them. Been busy with PAX Unplugged and the holidays so haven't had time recently. But should definitely have time next week to go through it and stuff.
  3. PhoenixTheHunter

    PhoenixTheHunter Lizardman Priest

    Howdy friends of the analytics,

    it's time for another update. As a rough schedule: Atm, I try to present a new version every two to four weeks. This depends on what kind of tasks are left (if I focus on more complex ones I'll probably need more time) and how much time is left besides my private duties.

    This update is, again, a more feature-oriented one. So, have fun while checking the new possibilities.

    1.) Collection Badge: I added a "max usable"-option. If this option is enabled the badge checks your collection for 9 weapons, 12 arcane items, etc (you know the scheme, right?) and the color scheme of the whole badge changes. If you have a look at the collection analysis you'll realize that there are two ways (that I've implemented) to check for "max usable": "equip a whole team" and "can equip a whole team?". For this badge I decided to use the latter one. I could offer more than two settings with more color schemes but I think two should be enough (work) and I decided to choose the latter one because I wanted to create a real ultimate-badge-version. As I just checked who requested this feature, I realized that is was - no great surprise - @Force.ofWill , so thanks for this particular idea besides the other great feedback I got from you.

    2.) Collection Analysis: There are two things about the analysis that aren't running optimal: The item filter is a bit hard to learn and the info-box doesn't list all missing items if there are too many. As a (small) step towards solving both problems, this update introduces a "exclude from next analysis"-technique. If you run an analysis you get different lines of results: Level x items, rarity y items, set z items, slot w items (and perhaps more in the future). If you want to exclude all Weapons, you now have a button in the Weapon line to create an item filter rule that will exclude weapons from the next run. So you can run a dummy analysis, exclude all lines that you don't want to see by simply clicking all respective buttons and then run a second analysis to see the results that are left after all excludes were applied. This helps you with creating rules by seeing exemplary rules and this helps me with the "show all items" problem because I'll need a similar button approach for this. You'll probably see that the created item filter rules aren't very pretty (if you exclude multiple things the resulted filter will look like this: "(((x) and y) and z) and w" ). If there is someone with a degree in math, logics or optimization who wants to improve this, feel free to show me a better solution. You may use the item filter parser definition but keep in mind that the parser is auto-generated and I don't want to manually recreate the parser just for the created item filter to appear a bit prettier.

    As I already mentioned my schedule: there are some tasks left on my to-do-list, but ask for others if you like.

    Greetings, Phoenix

    Attached Files:

  4. PhoenixTheHunter

    PhoenixTheHunter Lizardman Priest

    As with every decision that I can't make on my own, I was chatting with @Force.ofWill but I think this particular one should be global to everyone who follows this development process. So please tell me what you think, to help me with making the final decision.

    The different Types of Undroppability:

    Most of the items that are added to the game can be obtained, what means that you can either buy them or get them from loot chests. Then there are two items that are available in shops (from time to time) or can drop from MP chests but are more or less unobtainable in campaign (because their introductory level is higher than today's renown limit of 21: Guztuk's Giant Gutter and Cape Of Dark Magic).

    Besides those items there are some others that aren't obtainable all the time. In terms of the collection analysis tool this part of the items is called undroppable(s). But there are different types of undroppability:
    • there are items that are obtainable for some weeks each year (Halloween- and Christmas-themed items)
    • there are treasures that are obtainable once after completing specific adventures for the first time
    • there are some items that are obtainable in the tutorial (e.g. Rusty Shield)
    • and finally, there are two items that aren't obtainable for every new player: The Goldleaf Blade and Demon Skull Snuffbox
      • The Goldleaf Blade is given to players during Greenfang's intro tutorial battle but taken away before creating the own party (but some players were able to get it because it was once accidentally available as normal drop).
      • Demon Skull Snuffbox was given to every player who was registered as a specific release was installed.
    Except from the last two items every player can obtain all items assuming he/she invests enough time/money and doesn't sell the adventure reward treasures (and knows some tricks like "buy the rusty shield in the tutorial or you'll (almost) never get it again"). But those two ones aren't obtainable for the majority of the players. I'm now considering to exclude the two items manually from collection analysis and collection badge (and perhaps more tools) so that everyone is (potentially) able to reach 100% with all options enabled. (It's like having a Steam achievement that is known to be unobtainable for you just because you are who you are.) The few players who have one or both items won't loose anything from my point of view, but all others would gain.

    It's true, you can disable the undroppables, but most of them are obtainable. So why not introduce the notion of unobtainable items and exclude them from the analysis and the badge (and no, I'm not convinced that adding an additional checkbox for unobtainable items is the right way, because of the same Steam-argument). What do you all think.

    Thanks in advance for your comments.
  5. Ok lets get Started:

    1) The collection Badge uses the "can equip a whole team?" That work this way: It counts the item when you already have all the copies for the max usable, so missing 1 copie or 5 copies of the same item does anything to the %. For example, for a weapon you need to have the 9 copies, and when you have the 9 copies of a weapon it counts as 1 item complete for the item %. Maybe in some part of the collection Badge this need to be cleared up.

    2) The collection analysis. I don´t like the X at the left of the results, feels like something is wrong with your collection (i was like, why all those red X :().
    Also, for Sets, I think you don´t need the X, because people already have the check boxes to include/exclude the sets they want.
    That let me figure something really important. I think is easier for people to check what they want, than remove all they don´t want.
    I'm not a mathematician, but i think is more practical to talk without negations, because it makes everything more clear. Is easier to say: I want to be happy, than say: I don´t want to be sad. If you mark a lot of buttoms is just a lot of negations connected by "and".

    In my ingenuity, a better approuch could be something similar to the way Sets, Promo Items, Undroppable Items and treasures are checked before the Analysis. For not add to much check boxes from the beginnig of the analysis, it could be a buttom called "Advanced Analysis", that when you hit it, it displays the check boxes for Rarity, Slot and Level. Also a check box for Check all/uncheck all. (i think all need to be unchecked by default). With that, if people only want weapons, they just check Weapons (and the filter will be something easier like [Slot]=="Weapon"). Of course with many check boxex will still be ((A & B) & C) & ... But it will be a bit easier to read, and more practical. Usually people want to search for something especific, and do it by excluiding all they don't want, is not the easier way. (also if they want to exclude something specific, that is why there will be a check all, uncheck all),

    3) I guess The Goldleaf Blade and Demon Skull Snuffbox can be excluded manually without a problem. Also, Hope someday, Admins put those Items Including the Rusty Shield, White Star Diamond, Jewel of Alet Zhav and Crown of Chaos as a Sell items for Christmas. Or almost (those last 4) for a drop reward on the adventures that can be found the first time, if you already beat those maps. A lot of people sell the treasures, for example (because we were newb and didn't know about the "not available as a loot drop")

    You're welcome @PhoenixTheHunter Thanks for all the work you put into. As I say before, The tools (and the wiki) are really important. They add so much value to the game and to the community that plays it. Hope other people help with testing or the feedback. This is for us by us (as comunnity)
    Last edited: Nov 27, 2017
  6. Sir Veza

    Sir Veza Farming Deity

    Is the Promo set the holiday reskins? If so, they only show up when the base set is selected as well. Your call as to whether this is a bug or a feature. If they are excluded by deselecting Promo, there should be no need to include them in Undroppable.

    I think we could get @Jon or @Flaxative to allow the Rusty Shield to drop on level 2 if we ask nicely. It certainly won't affect game balance and is probably just an oversight.

    I didn't realize Guztuk's Giant Gutter and Cape Of Dark Magic don't drop in the campaign. I think this should be changed as well. (This was the case with Giant Skeletal Arm and St Ulrich's Bones, but both were changed to drop in the campaign as well.)
    (Sidenote: All my accounts are maxed on the robe and have at least a few Gutters, which is attributable to how great leagues are. My time since last ranked battle: 177 Weeks.)

    So I recommend counting the Goldleaf, Snuffbox, and Rusty Shield as undroppable as things currently stand.
  7. PhoenixTheHunter

    PhoenixTheHunter Lizardman Priest


    just a few quick comments.

    So that everyone knows: There will only be one more update this year around (or perhaps after) X-Mas. I cannot manage to invest more time into this, sadly.

    If the community agrees to prefer the second to last version over the new version (the one with the crosses), I'd opt for @Stexe hosting the older one until I can satisfy you're wishes with a reworked new version (I already have some ideas of how to make it more clear visually that the crosses are buttons instead of error messages, in addition there will be a whole manual section to the tools - some day - and, I guess, with more explanation the crosses should be crystal clear). Just let @Stexe know that the new version isn't ready now. I might be the only one working on the tools but you all may judge whether my work is good or not so good (I guess, you wouldn't describe my work as bad, based on the positive comments I got so far). And hence, we may all decide together which version we want to be live. (And finally I would opt for a live version in this year just as a confirmation that my work shows results ;) )

    To the options vs. crosses issue:
    • I don't want to have to many options. For me, all I have today is already very much. On my (laptop) screen I cannot see the buttons when loading the analysis tool because all the options need so much space. But hiding them in some "Advanced"-section would require additional clicks all the time because I believe that almost everyone uses some of the options and would have to expand the advanced-section after each reload.
    • The "cross-created rules" should help you get to know the rules. So I'd say that in case someone didn't understand the manual or is to lazy to read it, the cross-created rules should get most of the users to the point where he/she can write rules on their own. Then, the filter is more powerful than every - ridiculously large - list of option panels. I only clicked the crosses to test them. If I need some exclusions, I just write down an appropriate filter - I admit, I invented them so no surprise that I can write them almost subconsciously.
    • Yes, sets can be included/excluded via two ways. But in contrast to my last argument I would prefer to keep both ways. Partially because the sets have a number-encoding, so excluding sets via rule needs additional knowledge. Partially because I can't see a point why there shouldn't be crosses on those lines if every other line has one. Partially because this is probably the most used exclusion option (at least now, that there aren't more such options ;) ). Partially because the old versions already had them.
    • All the options are applied directly without being transformed into rules. So if there was an option for Weapons, this option wouldn't create a rule but would need code to take effect. So everything that can be expressed with rules is - besides being more powerful - less (potentially error-prone) code/work for me. You could remove all options except for the promo option (and the settings regarding the info box) and express all this by rules. But imaging a new player finds the tools and only has a long line of a text box to fill; not very user-friendly.
    • The double negation point is a valid argument but I couldn't figure out how to avoid it. Interpreting the given filter and applying some clever changes so that the new exclusion fits nicely into the already written filter without additional parentheses is a tough challenge. If anyone would like to implement this (or give me a step-by-step manual of the mathematical background/procedure so that I can code it), I could add it. But I don't feel like I want to do it on my own especially when thinking about the time I would need for this myself.

    Yes, promo = holiday. At the moment, promos aren't effected by the undroppable-option. But I'm thinking about changing this (because the separation seems to me like an artificial and not intuitive situation). If the undroppable also applies to promo, you can select all x-mas promos when it is around x-mas while still excluding the Halloween ones. This way, the undroppables-option will always decide based on the information that is valid AT THIS SPECIFIC POINT IN TIME. (Otherwise you can only include/exclude both as if there were no differences between them.)

    Can't prove it, but I guess Giant Skeletal Arm and St Ulrich's Bones (only) drop in campaign because there are adventures above level 17 now.

    I hope I have covered all the points you two said.
    ParodyKnaveBob and Stexe like this.
  8. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Just let me know what version to host. I should have time tomorrow or in the next two or three days to go through it and upload it to my website.
  9. Sir Veza

    Sir Veza Farming Deity

    It was based upon the introductory level of cards on the item, and was a bit higher.
    Staff Of The Inferno is a level 3 item which won't drop unless your renown is 15 or higher, due to the presence of Ember Burst. (Unless it's been changed.)

    I'm happy with either of the latest versions. No help at all in terms of polling, I know. :oops: Just works out that way sometimes.
  10. Fyi the three low level commons are straight up undroppable, they were removed for being worse than the base slot and tricking newbies into using them.
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  11. PhoenixTheHunter

    PhoenixTheHunter Lizardman Priest

    For me, it'll be fine if any version gets hosted and unless there are known bugs I'd always opt for the latest. But in general (to let the community the time to test them) always hosting the second to last version can be a more stable approach. PM me if you have any trouble with the new versions and I'll do my best to help you.

    The general concept of Introductory Levels wasn't new for me, but thanks for recapping and perhaps others will profit from this insight. But the values for Bless and Massive Chop were indeed lowered. They both are below 22 now, so yes, there was a fix by the devs but the presence of adventures above level 17 still was one part of the fix as both card's introductory level is still above 17. Whereas Unstoppable Chop (intro lvl: 31) and Spell Skill (intro lvl: 22) are nonetheless above 21 and therefore not droppable in campaign.

    That is indeed something I didn't knew yet. ;)

    Man, this is my most edited post ... glad, I didn't count the times I pressed edit
    Last edited: Dec 4, 2017
  12. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Sir Veza and Mr. Magnifico like this.
  13. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob Thaumaturge

    Edge, Win10, all the latest updates


    It does not list my missing items at the bottom of the page. Console says...

    Bah, I've been waiting for the F12 console to load for many minutes now, even closing every program but the browser (with only these two tabs) and Task Manager. Hardware's not being agreeable again, sorry.
  14. rinco69

    rinco69 Hydra

    I cannot right click->save the badge it creates. Am I supposed to take a screenshot of it?

    Because I can do that. Although all my screenshots make-go-big thanks to the awesomeness of Apple Retina display. But I guess nobody will have trouble seeing this in my signature...

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  15. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    I just got a cape from today's Loot Fairy, so it definitely drops in the campaign (my renown is 21).
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  16. Sir Veza

    Sir Veza Farming Deity

    I dropped the cape in the campaign a couple of days ago, so I guess it must. I haven't dropped the Gutter lately, but now I'd notice. I wonder if cards.csv has been changed again?
  17. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    The current Equipment.csv shows int. level 22 for the Cape and 31 for the Gutter. Maybe it's ignored if you're at max renown?
    Sir Veza likes this.
  18. PhoenixTheHunter

    PhoenixTheHunter Lizardman Priest

    Hey guys,

    @Gutter etc: in some FAQ-page or alike I once found the information that items above your renown may drop but with very reduced probability. So drops in campaign aren't impossible but rare (assuming this info is still valid). But taking into account that they are already rare and epic respectively, reduced drop rate would mean almost undroppable. So yes, I omitted some details in my - already very long - text.

    @Badges: The badges should be savable with right-click. Only for that reason they are painted to a canvas. Otherwise they would have been nice vector-graphics. Perhaps your browser doesn't support this (if you find out what the problem is, tell me, maybe I can fix it in one of the next versions)?!? But anyway, you know the tools that are typically called MS Paint (or whatever the Unix and Mac equivalents are called)? You can resize such a screenshot easily.

    @Edge: Who the hell uses this THING (but I'm happy for the fact that someone uses it so that I get such error messages ;) ), but anyway, @Force.ofWill might have reported a similar bug (without the full error message it's hard to say if it's the same but it appears very familiar) and I have a version that works for him. Please check the attachment just to see if the error still occurs (place the file next to the buggy analysis tool so that this version can access all necessary styling files and that the parser can be loaded correctly). If this solves your issue the next version will include the fix for this. If not, please send me the full error msg (reply here, start conversation, message me in-game, ...).

    @Hosting: util/custom-item-filter.php and util/equipment-xref.php cannot be found by my browser. I'll test the tools with more care later on, but atm every button at least seems to do something.

    Attached Files:

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  19. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Let me know about any hosting fixes. I just drag and dropped all the files from the zip into their own directory (CardHunter) and kept everything else the same.
  20. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob Thaumaturge

    1. $:^ | Nothing to do with Hell. I prefer Edge for my general browser.
    2. I haven't installed Apache+PHP on my current machine. (Man, I haven't even installed Aptana Studio on this thing. Frankly, I've been writing the raw Javascript extension for my Card Hunter Battle Replayer tool .. in Notepad. Just sayin'. My hardware can only handle so many things running at once.) The first time I actually used your Collection Analysis tool upgrades was on Stexe's site that other day... $F^ , Sorry! $:^ }

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