Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by Frostguard, Aug 8, 2018.

  1. Frostguard

    Frostguard Thaumaturge

    The title's maybe a bit deceptive.

    Telekinesis came up in another thread; beyond a certain level, you just won't really find any wizard who doesn't come with a few. Which (as you'll know if you've read that other thread) I don't consider a good sign, so I got to thinking: why is that? And what could be done?

    Telekinesis is obviously the best position control card as far as value-to-quality is concerned. It has the Fly keyword, and it allows the caster to choose the new position freely, and is still only bronze quality. On the top of that, between items like Asmod's Telekinetic Chain, Luke's Iron Hand, and Ring of Appropriation, it's one of the cards with the best itemization in the game.

    As for position control itself, I think that the reason why pretty much every wizard has it is twofold.

    1. Wizards just don't have a lot to do with their arcane items. They generally don't support most archetypes - burning cards are found on them just fine, but go for anything else, and you'll find the item slot lacking. They also make up one third of a wizard's deck. As a result, whatever you put here, you'll see it a lot - removing armor is possible, but wizards generally don't want too much of that, as there'd be no point; terrain is just plain risky with the amount of moves around, and so on, and so forth.

    2. Wizards are just not good at... staying alive. Wizards need protection; that's their thing. However, warriors (and priests, for that matter) just can't provide this protection. It's what control zones are in the game for, I believe, among other things - but between Vengeance, Nimble Strike, Vanguard, and their friends, they just don't cut it anymore. Enemy warriors can simply zip past allies and murder the squishy wizards, unless they push them away first.

    Long story short:
    - Wizards need protection, and
    - Other classes just don't provide said protection.

    Which I find a shame. I think there's the potential for a lot more tactical depth, and I think it'd also be nice if wizards didn't have to rely on Telekinesis and the like for staying alive, as, once again, it's a huge hit to character diversity, besides, honestly I just don't find the whole game of do-you-have-more-moves-than-I-have-Telekineses very interesting.

    So what do we do?

    As you've probably guessed, here comes the part where I describe some wacky, out-of-the-world card ideas. Oddly enough, some battlefield control seems to be in order, but not for wizards. Warriors need better ways to protect them, and with it, maybe a real defender archetype could become viable. (As a sidenote, if you look at the four traditional combat roles, Card Hunter has all the others - strikers obviously, controllers as well, leaders/supporters galore - but defenders are practically missing, and I think this is the reason.)

    So here we go!

    Attack, Projectile Sonic, Range something (4? 6?)
    Attach to target. Whenever that character targets a character other than the one that played this card, they take 2 Penetrating Psychic Magic damage. Duration 2.
    "Diplomacy's funny little sister." - Vek the Vile

    Taunt was the most obvious choice to investigate, but it's probably too strong in its current form, and leaves the opposing player no choice. I thought this could be a good start; Provoke would still allow other characters to be targeted, but hurts them each time they do so, and I imagine the incremental damage would build up. Still, some changes could be in order, specifically to make it trigger only on attacks, or to require the source of Provoke to be in line of sight (the latter so that warriors couldn't just play the card and then run away and hide). Maybe. Maybe not. Maybe it's just a dumb idea.

    Block, 3+
    Block any affecting an ally. Attacker takes 6 Slashing Melee damage. You must be adjacent to the attacker.
    "Oh, I don't think so."

    Opportunity Attack
    Boost, 2+
    Whenever an enemy adjacent to you targets a character other than you, deal 4 Slashing Melee damage to that character. Keep.
    "I think that it needs no further explanation that when there's someone with a big sword right next to you, you don't want to leave yourself open." - Captain Cedric Cleavehorn

    Shield Wall
    Trait. Attach this card to yourself. Your block cards can trigger against attacks affecting adjacent allies. Duration 3.
    "Look out for your comrades, as they do for you. There is a certain strength in unity." - Captain Cedric Cleavehorn

    Trait. Attach this card to yourself. Whenever you play a Melee Attack card, if your target has none of your allies adjacent to it and you have no other enemies adjacent to you, that attack deals 3 additional damage. Duration 2.
    "En garde!"

    Mark of the Demon
    Attack/Assist, Magic Unholy, Range 3
    Attach to target ally. Whenever an enemy targets a character other than target, they take 2 unpreventable Unholy Magic damage. Duration 2.
    "You have been blessed. Now go forth and get kille— I mean, get to killing." - Obros Skullhome

    Assist, Magic Holy, Range 4
    Attach to target ally. Whenever another ally adjacent to target takes damage, redirect that damage to target. Duration 1.
    "Your sacrifice will allow countless others to live. You will be remembered."

    While much less straightforward than the others, Duelist would incentivize your opponent to gang up on the warrior with it (or just ignore him entirely, which might or might not be difficult to do). Could also reduce the opponent's block rolls if the condition is met, but I didn't want to make it more complicated than it needed to be.

    Not sure how I feel about Martyrdom, might be a bit too similar to Impenetrable Nimbus, but at least it's much easier to disrupt.

    Another idea I thought of but eventually scrapped was a trait that'd increase the warrior's zone of control to two squares, something about a spear, but that'd probably be way too powerful. I thought it could also be nice if there was a defender card that'd stop enemies trying to move past you (with free move or fly) and deal some damage with them, but with the limited pathing the game offers, that didn't seem like a good idea.

    Of course, if defenders become a thing, then we'd need cards to deal with them, likely. Or maybe I just wanted some excuse to mention some other card ideas that don't strictly enable the defender archetype but have been on my mind.

    Shattering Strike
    Attack, Melee Crushing, Damage 8, Range 1
    The first block that succeeds against this attack is instead negated and discarded.
    "Names are deceiving. I also break shields!" - Grugg Axbreaker

    This idea came to me a little while back, and it feels notable as it'd be an anti-block card that counters Defender's Block and Parry reliably.

    Attack, Projectile Sonic, Range 4
    Attach to target. Target has no zone of control. Duration 2.
    "Just a little something to put them in their place." - Thraxar the Slaughterer

    Would cards like this enable a defender archetype and make wizards less reliant on Telekinesis? Hard to tell, I guess. It wouldn't address the first issue, but maybe it's the first step to remedying that, too - wizards could get closer to opponents if they could rely on their allies to keep them alive, so perhaps short-range effects on wizards could become more viable. I don't know.
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
    ParodyKnaveBob and Scarponi like this.
  2. Gingrich Yurr

    Gingrich Yurr Thaumaturge

    I've been running triple wizards without Telekinesis or even any control at all for about a month and have been stable in the 1700s, even hitting 1800 once. It requires dwarf wizards for survivability but it does show that Telekinesis is not necessary even on supposedly vulnerable triple wizard teams.

    I like your card ideas though, we may see more 1 warrior 2 wizard teams which is one of the rarest team compositions right now.
    tolkien and ParodyKnaveBob like this.
  3. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob Thaumaturge

    Since you're familiar with short-range Telekinesis spam, surely you're high enough rank to also suffer the boredom of short-range Punishing Bolt spam?

    Otherwise, yes, you make the solid point that meleers are supposed to stand guard for their wizard teammates, and players circumvent that with all the focused toys they can get.
  4. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    Lets crosspost to card ideas for posterity.

    But, I'd love to Minor Heal an Intercept wielder and cause him to take 6 slashing damage from a great distance.
  5. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob Thaumaturge

    Funny idea, tolkien -- one you know I'd pull, heheh -- but @Frostguard's Intercept idea included that the attacker must be adjacent instead of a great distance. $:^ J

    And agreed re: others, I like the concept, Frostguard, of trying to make Zone of Control mean something again in PvP (past the 1200s or so). $:^ P

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