[Suggestion] Respond to player concerns re: VP/Nimble Strike

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by Pilgrim Bailey, Jan 30, 2014.

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  1. Any reason why there is just flat out silence and lack of changes on a nearly unanimously agreed upon broken item/ability?
     
  2. Bearson Onyx

    Bearson Onyx Goblin Champion

    Why would you say there's silence?
    Although VP/NS wasn't mentioned by name I think it was clear that the answer we got about currently not changing certain cards/items because of not wanting to hurt those who collected them referred to VP/NS mainly as well as the rest of the cards regarded as broken.
    Which is also why they are planning to break out new content that much like the other thread you opened is meant to deal with these cards (there's a parry for step attacks and such if I remember correctly).
    Like you, I would probably just tweak the items/cards in question if I were in charge but I'm not, so I do what I can with what I have (mainly lots of NS's) and look forward in anticipation to what the game's future would look like.
     
  3. Please don't stop continuously whining in chat about it just because you've flagged this up here.
     
  4. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    Unfortunately, Pushback Parry will be useless against Nimble Strike/Vibrant Pain:
    "<u>Block Melee</u>. If this blocks a Step attack, <u>Push 3</u> the attacker."
     
  5. Jarmo

    Jarmo Snow Griffin

    Why useless? It seems to me that after the defender plays Pushback Parry the attacker will in most cases be farther away from the defender than where he started. Only in those cases where he started the attack from four squares away he will be one square closer but that is not all or even most of the cases Nimble Strike is used in. Am I misunderstanding something?
     
  6. Well, first of all it does block the attack (at least I'm guessing it will), which by itself doesn't make it useless. Secondly, what you say would kind of apply if he had nothing but Nimble Strikes, but VP warriors usually have 1-range high damage attacks as well. The job of Nimble Strike in a situation like that is to get close (while doing average-above average damage), and it's the high damage attack that comes after that usually kills you.

    That being said, Pushback Parry would have been more interesting with a different kind of mechanic imo. Maybe something that would have pushed only 1, but would have also added Trip. This way one failed step attack would stop the attacker completely.
     
  7. Jade303

    Jade303 Thaumaturge

    I think you mean Halt.
     
  8. Yes. :)
     
  9. Zhizz

    Zhizz Mushroom Warrior

    It's very difficult to take this thread seriously when the author is running a wwe/NS deck :(

    ETA: Yes, I'm butthurt and this is ad hominems.
     
  10. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    One of the hardest things to deal with in comprehending the world is the concept that hypocrisy doesn't diminish truth. Good luck!
     
  11. Zhizz

    Zhizz Mushroom Warrior


    No, I get that :) But nor does truth diminish hypocrisy! (I'd also like to point out that I haven't called, and don't consider, Pilgrim Bailey to be a hypocrite. I simply cannot take his position seriously whilst he's running that deck.)
     
  12. I don't see any hypocrisy or illogical behavior in wanting a nerf but still using that item/card. It's pretty clear to me that Pilgrim Bailey wants the nerf because that way he can use something else and not be at a huge disadvantage. There are many interesting items and cards in Card Hunter, but as long as we have VP/Nimble Strike in the picture, there's no point using them, unless you want to play a "fun" build and shave off 200+ from your rating.
     
    Stexe likes this.
  13. Zhizz

    Zhizz Mushroom Warrior

    I'll say it again. I'm not calling him hypocritical. That would -literally- not make sense to anybody who understands what the word actually means. Here's a clue: it does not mean 'not practising what you preach'. I'm saying that I can't take his position seriously.
     
  14. Another hard thing to comprehend is understanding what constitutes hypocrisy, and understanding why you should/should not give credence to someone. In this situation, I believe wwe/nimble strikes detract from the skill element of the game. Nimble strike is more detrimental to the game than wwe/ww, but both are things that, if employed, require your opponent to outplay you to be at an equal footing. Something is very very wrong in that equation. How would I be able to make claims like that without testing the things in question? Would you rather I just came into threads with no idea of what I'm talking about and flamed people? Or just stated things about comps I've never played with or against?

    If anything, you both should be giving more credence to my opinion, because I am easily able to gain rating use said methods, but I point out the broken things involved, and rather than exploit them to be #1 or #2 or #3 on ladder, I post on the forums why they are broken and ask the devs to fix them.

    Now ask yourself, if I believe these things to be broken, why would I use them? There are a variety of answers that may come to mind if you simply think of why rather than joke, troll or flame me. Assuming you are serious, the only way to learn the intricacies of things that are overpowered and determine whether they are overpowered, or simply if its a matter of trial and error in finding effective counters, OR determine if they are necessary to ascend the ratings is to test them.
    I test every single possible comp I can on ladder. I highly doubt you will see many people who play more different comps than me very frequently, certainly not at the ratings levels I play at.

    I'm not simply making claims and pulling them out of a place where the sun doesn't shine, I try and improve, test, and understand the comps every single patch, at the cost of rating. Since release, I've found that nimble strike remains the best way to gain rating, bar nothing. If you have a VP or a lochaber, its tantamount to free rating. If you use wwe intelligently, while configuring your comp, same thing.

    IF I ever decide to play exclusively for rating, this is absolutely correct. I have to employ some combination of nimble strikes or wwe/ww to shoot for top 5. Otherwise, I will more likely than not get countercomped by people running compositions with those things. Its basically a truism that if you care about rating, you play nimble strikes. Period. End of discussion.
     
  15. Who would you believe first? Someone who hasn't used the tactics, and coming fresh off a loss, comes to the forum crying about it? Or someone who uses the tactics to easy success, points out what makes them unfair, and has no legitimate reason to do so if his goal is for ratings, because he can easily continue using them to success?
     
  16. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Dude I am 100% behind you. I was just responding to Zhizz.
     
    Pilgrim Bailey likes this.
  17. Jade303

    Jade303 Thaumaturge

    Card Hunter is about movement and positioning. You take cards like Nimble Strike and Winds of War and Whirlwind Enemies and you spam the hell out of them simply because it is most effective. I think that priest is the weakest class at the moment simply because it has very few options for movement. They have great gimmicks though.
     
  18. Agreed with both parts of this quote. One card allows you to have superior movement and positioning and the ability to retreat, AND/OR punish your opponent for their positioning. Oh, and it does damage. The explanation is a lot more lengthy as to why its broken, but I won't go into it again unless people would like to hear my rationale, but you can pack your deck and have 15 nimble strikes per character if you have 2 vps and a lochaber, or 2 lochs and anything else you want, or any combination thereof.

    As to priest, priest occupies a very strange niche right now. Its either, buff bots for nimble strike warriors while hiding as best you can, trying to nimbus people for FS mid-range builds, or, playing 1/1/1 with a nimble strike jack of all trades priest.
     
  19. neoncat

    neoncat Feline Outline

    Don't forget vamps! ≡(^w^)≡
     
    Flaxative likes this.
  20. Zhizz

    Zhizz Mushroom Warrior

    EDITED: Yeah, you're right man. Keep flying that flag and I'm sure BM will eventually come to its senses. Sorry to tear up your thread, buddy.

    See you on the sands,
    Zhizz
     
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