[SUGGESTION] - Make the Trogg levels less of a miserable chore.

Completing a level twice on Easy mode for the same reward as once on Normal mode is not grinding IMO. Grinding would be having to do each level several times. [And Easy + Adventurer's Club would give more gear - in terms of power, not number of pieces - than Normal without!]

I also don't agree with the comments like "the only thing you learn is get luckier" etc. If that's what you learn, you are learning the wrong thing. I don't think any special luck on drops is needed to win every campaign up top L11 at least, which is as far as I've got. There should be advice given, though, not to sell equipment until you're completely sure you won't need it. None of the campaigns so far have needed any special super-powered cards, only cards that are reasonably frequent on lots of equipment that drops. Penetrating attacks will kill trogs, and there's a ton of equipment with penetrating attacks. Cleansing is not needed for geomancers, the only thing needed is to keep a move card in your hand.

 

Well, I'm afraid you're wrong - sometimes the only thing you learn is that you should be luckier. That's a fact. What should I be learning if I don't draw the right cards at the right times? What should I be learning if none of the dice rolls go my way? What should I be learning if I get bad loot? Card Hunter is very luck based. If the luck doesn't swing your way, you can do some things to mitigate it, but not everything. If the luck swings your way, you need neither strategy nor a good setup. I have won some missions that I have lost previously where the only difference was that I got a better hand of cards, rolled higher on my armor, and the enemy rolled worse on theirs and didn't have their killer cards until it was too late. The only difference is luck.

Also, if what I'm supposed to be learning is "attack from behind," quite frankly I think I would prefer it if the Troggs had a 1+ roll on their armor rather than whatever it is. As it is, I'm actually somewhat encouraged to waste my cards attacking from the front in hopes that I'll get lucky.

 

So, having to replay a module twice...that's not grinding, but having to replay a module more than twice...that's grinding? Sorry, but that doesn't make much sense. I can't imagine players wouldn't feel like they're having to grind just to keep up with the other players who wouldn't have to play on your "easy mode". Reducing a player's loot would just be a punishment.

 

So, just to show that it may not be as hard as some think, I just completed Frozen Bridge while only equipping a single item across all three characters.

The item I had equipped (Pixie Hide Cloak) was only there because it's a light brown and didn't see it when removing items. It is a lvl 6 common robe however with no power points required so I'm okay with it still being there. It also has cowardly which made me discard two attacks so I benefited from it, but also was penalized for it.

I used the party I had on hand, a Dwarf Warrior, Human Priest and Elf Wizard and didn't customize it based on the known threats.

The log is attached. Also completed the Frozen Canyon with the same setup but I think the bridge is the major sticking point and wanted to focus on that.

Edit: Here is the party that has completed Frozen Bridge twice:
Gam
Level 17 Dwarf Warrior

Bare Knuckles​

Bare Knuckles​

Bare Knuckles​

Cloth Shirt​

Bare Arms​

Cloth Cap​

Plain Old Boots​

Unskilled Dwarf​

Unskilled Martial​

​

1 x Flimsy Block​

8 x Bludgeon​

3 x Walk​

1 x Shuffle​

7 x Cloth Armor​

6 x Weak Strike​

1 x Weak Block​

3 x Unreliable Block​

6 x Simple Strike​

​

Savior
Level 17 Human Priest

Bare Fists​

Bare Fists​

Cloth Vest​

Bare Arms​

Plain Old Boots​

Empty Pockets​

Empty Pockets​

Empty Pockets​

Unskilled Human​

Unskilled Divine​

​

4 x Bludgeon​

6 x Walk​

4 x Simple Strike​

10 x Wavering Faith​

7 x Unreliable Block​

3 x Cloth Armor​

2 x Minor Heal​

​

Silth
Level 12 Elf Wizard

Bare Hands​

Bare Hands​

Empty Pouch​

Empty Pouch​

Empty Pouch​

Empty Pouch​

Pixie Hide Cloak * The only equipped item (oops)​

Plain Old Boots​

Unskilled Elf​

Unskilled Arcane​

​

5 x Zap​

2 x Bludgeon​

6 x Walk​

4 x Simple Strike​

1 x Cowardly​

1 x Spark​

14 x Little Zap​

1 x Bungled Bolt​

1 x Resistant Hide​

1 x Hardy Mail​

​

​

 

In case you want to do it in future then I think you type either "partybbcode" or "partyanddecksbbcode" into the log, giving you equipped items or equipped items and the full deck respectively.

Also, wow. Did you manage it on your first attempt?

 

Ah great! Thanks for that. I'll go back and edit my post just because I don't feel like it's complete without it.

No. I attribute that to my own movement mistake pinning me down though. It also didn't help that I then received a higher than average number of move draws while I was already pinned down. I completed it on the second and third (after quitting and going back in) attempts though.

 

"Well, I'm afraid you're wrong - sometimes the only thing you learn is that you should be luckier."

But you can't be luckier, so that is false. Luck balances out in the long run. Yes, on some missions you will have bad luck. It's a card game and that comes with the territory. It's not so hard that you should need better than average luck to beat a mission. If you find a mission needs a ton of luck, what you need is a better strategy.

"Reducing a player's loot would just be a punishment."

No, it would be a lesser reward for a lesser achievement. And my view is that if the Easy level is required, the player is not yet ready to advance to harder missions (or else there's just that one mission which for some reason a particular player has trouble with, in which case by all means just do it once and miss a piece or two of loot which probably wasn't going to help you anyway).

 

That depends on how it is set up. If you start a party on Easy mode and can only play easy mode then it's a hindrance. If, however, you can select which difficulty you want to do on each adventure, then it would just be an easy way to bypass adventures and continue the campaign. I'd support the latter. Perhaps the option becomes available if you fail an adventure?

There hasn't been any discussion on item distribution at all. You are assuming it works the way you feel it does but it hasn't even been discussed.

 

Gerry Quinn, you have a real elitist POV. It seems like your thought process is something like: "If players can't handle the modules like a big boy, then they don't deserve loot like a big boy. Meerrh!" Your suggestion would go over horribly with players and I'd be very surprised if the devs even considered implementing it.

 

I've only skimmed this thread but I'd also support multiple difficulty settings. The problem I'd always had was figuring out how to balance it in terms of loot, but the suggestion of an easier mode opening up if a player fails an adventure is one that I think is a very good one. Then the same loot can be awarded regardless of difficulty setting because the player who is playing on easy mode probably spends longer in losing the three attempts than someone who beats it without losing on the normal mode.

That way no advantage or penalty is introduced by playing on easy in terms of loot and players who are finding the campaign difficult could hopefully continue on to new adventures without getting too frustrated.

 

I've already stated this in another thread but, it would balance itself out. Say that Player A('hardcore' gamer) plays on 'hard mode' and Player B('casual gamer') plays on 'normal mode'. Now, chances are that Player A is a more advanced player than Player B, therefore, Player A would most likely be completing modules at roughly the same pace as Player B regardless of difficulty setting simply because Player A wouldn't find 'hard mode' to be too difficult, thus, Player A probably wouldn't be defeated as much as Player B would be had he been playing on 'hard mode'. This means that both players would be getting loot at roughly the same pace. No imbalance. At least, not enough to really complain about.

However, one might say: "Yeah? And what if an "advanced" player decided to play on 'normal mode' for easy loot?" Well, that's their prerogative. See, the whole point of having 2 different game modes wouldn't be about the loot, it would be about the experience. Sure, an advanced player could play on 'normal mode' for the loot, but then they would probably lose out on a great experience because the game would be too easy for them. And isn't that what people keep complaining about? "If you make the game too easy, it won't be as fun for me.". Also, these different modes could be switched at any time. Meaning, a more advanced player could play on 'hard mode' for the experience, then replay those modules on 'normal mode' for the loot. The 'hardcore' gamers would get the experience and the loot, the 'casual' gamers would get their own experience and the loot.

 

The problem with it being their prerogative is that people will naturally funnel to the easy course of action. Unless there is a concerted effort to avoid doing so, you fall into the pattern of abusing AI patterns or spells or modes that give you the greatest benefit -- not the best challenge. It also comes to a perception of personal achievement. The feeling of achievement for getting through the campaign on hard mode is lessened by all of the people who breeze through on normal or easy when you place them all in the same community, but I'll save you the details on the psychological ramifications of disparate levels of achievement in attaining the same goals.

What would work is keeping the game as is and adding an additional difficulty on top of it that people can opt into. A likely response to this is "That's the same thing" but really it's not. Quests already address this perfectly. It's all about the perception of the player. An easy game with a hard mode is viewed very differently than a hard game with a hardcore or additional challenge mode. Again comes down to audience, market and business decisions. It's not something we can answer.

 

...And yet this is how it is currently implemented. You don't win, you don't get loot. Interesting that you find this "real elitist".

 

No, you're supposed to learn "penetrate, discard, attack from behind"; I think Sir Knight was the only one giving the last bit of advice, and for some reason you're ignoring the advice everyone else gave. Heirloom Assegai costs 5 gold in the shops, so does Perforating Wand. An empty Divine Item slot gives you three Wavering Faiths if you're desperate for discard options.

[edited after re-reading the first couple posts in this thread and seeing that I was forgetting a whole lot of stuff myself]

And since I'm editing this, I can mention that everyone playing this level should already have an Akon's Amulet from the free starter deck.

 

To follow up on Kalin's post addressing this, I think the most important part to learn against the trogs is positioning. Make them come to you, stay out of their reach, move in when you have an abundance of attacks, flank them (so you are attacking them from behind).

 

You can sure as hell be luckier, you just can't control it.

Again, you most certainly can need better than average luck to beat a mission. It depends on your level, your gear, the level of the mission, and the mission itself.

And to have a better strategy, you may very well need better gear, which in turn means grinding, and luck on your gear drops while you're doing it.

I was kind of hoping to get a response from the devs on the target audience of the game, and more importantly, whether or not I'm in it. The general response I'm getting from people on the forums, though, is that I suck as a player, I'm not hardcore enough, and I shouldn't be playing the game. That is laughably predictable for an internet forum, but I guess it's to be expected. I'll take my time and my money elsewhere. The problem is that you can be sure that for every person like me who's willing to post about that on a forum, there are plenty more who will just up and leave. But if I'm not wanted here, than I'm not wanted here. I'll go somewhere I am.

 

Which is a perfectly honest and reasonable response. I wouldn't want to see you go, but if you don't want to stick around and learn how to adapt, practice, and maybe have to put some time into improving then maybe you should. Certainly your feedback is good and it's obviously up to the devs as to who they are targeting. We'll just have to see if they decide to bend things. Either way, your contribution is a good one.

 

That is indeed my main concern. This may be both completely unfounded and very pessimistic but I can see some people using an easier mode to quickly generate a large collection of items for use in multiplayer. Having said that I have played very little multiplayer. Maybe if you are good at it then it is a better idea to play lots of multiplayer matches and gain items that way?

And now that I think about it more, there's probably going to be less of an imbalance with an easier mode that everyone can complete (albeit at different speeds) than having a single mode that some people can't progress beyond. (When I was previously considering this, I was coming at it from a two equally skilled players point of view, one playing on normal and one on hard. The one on normal will probably have an advantage in multiplayer over the one playing on hard by virtue of having more items at a given point in time. This doesn't seem fair to me.)

As someone who plays Card Hunter principally for the campaign, I am whole-heartedly in favour of multiple difficulty settings. I'm just aware that this could affect the balance of multiplayer and should therefore be considered carefully. I definitely don't have enough experience to say what affect, if any, this kind of change would have.

 

Or maybe you're too hardcore. A casual player won't expect to win the game on the first day, so when they run into trogs (or kobolds, or lizardman netters) they'll say "Wow this is hard" and go to bed. Then the next day they come back and try a new strategy, and if that doesn't work maybe they'll recruit some new heroes and level them up (since the exhaustion has worn off by now), earning a bunch of new loot and experience in different strategies and a chance to pay more attention to the tutorial.

 

I've already addressed this.

No, they don't. Quests are end-game content for after you've 'beaten' the game. My suggestion is for the actual game itself.

You're off on what I was getting at.

I've already addressed this concern. And about an:

...I don't know why people keep using the word "easy". I never said make the game easy. I used the word hard and normal. I think the game should be toned down a bit for a normal mode and adjusted properly for a hard mode. I in no way think the game should ever become easy.


Again, guys, you keep talking about imbalance in terms of loot, and I've already addressed this. The 'hardcore' gamers playing on 'hard mode' could play through each module once, and only once(or more, if they'd prefer), for the experience of playing a challenging game...and then replay those modules on the 'normal mode' for the loot, again, if they'd prefer to. It's not about loot, guys...it's about the experience. That's what everybody is complaining about. "This game is too hard. I'm not having a good experience with it." Or: "If you make the game too easy, I won't find it challenging enough so I won't have a good experience with it." It all boils down to a player's experience, not the loot.