[SUGGESTION] Make caverns of chaos playable!

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by Attachiant, Oct 20, 2015.

  1. Attachiant

    Attachiant Kobold


    I'm so sorry that my first post here will be an angry especially when I like that game so much but enough is enough!

    For me, caverns of chaos are simply unplayable.

    As a regular player I don't play priests that much, focusing them on health regeneration but it's required to play them in cavern of chaos from the lvl2 with the premade party you gave us to play with.

    As a result I can't go any further than lvl4 and have to go back from the beginning again and again and that's quite frustrating.

    If you don't fix that - too much premade party in this adventure - I'm pretty sure that I won't put a penny on that game.

    Understand me well I'm not trying to blackmail you but honnestly if I stop enjoy the game I don't see how I can imagine to put money in it.
  2. Robauke

    Robauke Guild Leader

    I understand Caverns of Chaos was conceived as ultimate challenge for single players, so maybe avoid this brick wall for now and return to it once you have exhausted all other campaign options. If you plan to spend money, the two expansions are a notch higher in difficulty and a good stepping stone to prepare you for Caverns with more items, a deeper understanding and by giving you a higher frustration tolerance.
  3. Attachiant

    Attachiant Kobold

    I've already exhausted all the campaign options - except doing them again for these medals - so it's either the new content or nothing.

    Oh be sure I won't spend a penny in that game I liked so much but ruined everything with that caverns of nonsense!
  4. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Not every piece of new content needs to appeal to every single player. It reads to me like you dislike a fundamental design element of Caverns of Chaos—one that is part of the point of Caverns of Chaos, and one we won't change for one player at the expense of compromising the design.

    You don't have to answer this question, but I'm curious.

    How is an unbeatable (for you) Caverns of Chaos worse than no Caverns of Chaos? I guess I'm wondering why you want me to remove something that so many players enjoy just because you don't like it. Did the addition of Caverns of Chaos really "ruin everything?" As far as I know its addition didn't materially change any of the other parts of the game, of which there were many, and which you claim to have enjoyed above.
  5. Attachiant

    Attachiant Kobold

    Let me answer your question by another question, that you don't have to answer, but I'm curious too.

    Are you happy to design new content that is actually undoable by some of your fellow players?

    I mean the only thing I don't like is that I have to play with premade party all the way from party 2 to party 10 and in undoable because I think of Card Hunter like a casual game and not the the kind I need to go on a forum to learn the tactics or how to beat a particular part.

    You would have done the cavern of chaos playable with my own party I'll more than happy to die and try again. You force me to play with a premade party, I'm not happy.

    And yes I use the word "force" as if it wasn't for the Cavern of Chaos there will be no new content at all in taht update.
  6. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Some people don't play multiplayer at all, so every addition we make to multiplayer (new leagues, new ranked boards) is "undoable" for them by your metric. So, yes, I'm at peace with it. For some people anything behind a pay wall (like the expansions) is "undoable;" others hate Mauve Manticore; the list goes on. Not every part of the game is enjoyed by every player!

    Now that I've answered your question, will you answer mine? :)

    That's impressive! A lot of players look for help with the game because it's pretty hard. I congratulate you if what you say is true and the game has been completely casual for you. Even the Troll Tyrant?? Well, that's cool.

    New items, new ranked boards, and a Mauve Manticore don't add up to "no new content" in my book... :(
  7. Attachiant

    Attachiant Kobold

    Except that in that case it's not undoable because they failed every time they tried but because it's not interesting for them. Not the same at all.

    There is a difference between casual - I like to play that game, I enjoy it, it's not too difficult but yet challenging - and hard - I failed 11 times at the lvl 4 of Cavern of chaos and that's too hard.

    Oh yeah small thing, small thing and small thing and the big thing - the cavern of chaos. You can succeed at the big thing? We don't care as you got some minor things.

    But honnestly when I see the tone of your answers to a customer I understand there is only one thing you want to read here, that you've done everything right, that you are the best at your job and that people should think that and only that and never give feedback against that.
  8. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    Aren't you precisely saying that using a premade party is not interesting to you?

    Didn't you just say...
    ... that it's not that it's hard that it bothers you?
    ParodyKnaveBob and timeracers like this.
  9. realm151

    realm151 War Monkey

    eh third party here and it sounds to me more like you expect every piece of content to cater to exactly to what you want.

    ever hear of a game called dark souls?

    "Much praise was given to the online system, as well as the sense of jubilation felt when conquering boss fights after numerous failed attempts. They also suggested that casual gamers may struggle to progress, whereas role-playing game enthusiasts will thrive on the difficulty."

    the game was hard for a reason. it was undoubtably "too hard" for many people. but the appeal of the game was exactly that -- the difficulty.

    you're advancing some argument that the difficulty level of all content should fall within a range of what you deem enjoyable. but what about the opposite perspective? let me propose the idea that if cavern of chaos were made easier, i would find it unappealing. what now? i'm more than willing to entertain a thought-out response as to why your preference ought to rank higher than mine.
  10. DupleX

    DupleX Champion of Cardhuntria

    Upon completion of Caverns of Chaos an adventure where you use your own party on the same maps unlocks (Return to the Caverns of Chaos).

    This ordering may be frustrating to people who don't want to use the premade parties, but the loot for Return is not nearly as good as the original and the module is much more monotonous (you will lose to similar monsters with your build each time).

    As for being a casual game, while the difficulty is not very casual, not having to build a specific party for any fight besides the first makes CoC very easy to play without a lot of preplanning (easy to play, not easy to beat :)).

    The current completion rate is somewhere around 1~2% I think. It seems like you have not played the Attack of the Artifacts expansion, which are much more difficult than normal campaign missions, so the jump up in difficulty could be surprising/daunting.

    Also as an aside, you will probably not be able to beat Return without at least one priest.
  11. Attachiant

    Attachiant Kobold

    Precisely. It bothers me that I have to use a premade party.

    I'm sick and tired to use a premade party and die 11 times with it. I'll more than happy to die 100+ times with mine.

    I prefer challenge than random.
  12. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    So you don't like Caverns of Chaos, which is all about the random. This is a personal preference; CoC isn't "unplayable" for most people. I'm sorry you don't like it, but, again, it's a tiny fraction of the game. Play the rest of the game if you like the rest of the game.
    ParodyKnaveBob and timeracers like this.
  13. Attachiant

    Attachiant Kobold

    I'll say that this order is the wrong one, at least.

    IF - I don't know where you have found these numbers - the completion rate is 1/2% and the developpers think that there is no probleme with that then it's hopeless.

    I've done Attack of the Artifacts - at least I think as my team is lvl 21 - but honnestly that was hard and challenging. So enjoyable.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
  14. Attachiant

    Attachiant Kobold

    Again it's the latest new content so an important fraction of the game.

    But again if you're happy to develop new content just for an elite that's fine by me and I won't put a penny in it.
  15. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    But then Flaxative's point precisely holds... maybe this content isn't for you. There are very few players that enjoy every portion of the game. It is too bad that the biggest addition in the latest update wasn't something you'll like playing, but maybe the next update will have something you really like and others don't. CH has a large player base there are a lot of interests to feed.
    ParodyKnaveBob, CT5, Maniafig and 2 others like this.
  16. Attachiant

    Attachiant Kobold

    Once again if they are happy to do new content and that a vast majority of people can'ts do it, as the 1 2 % competion rate, that's fine by me but I think that this means there is a big problem in this update.

    I enjoy the idea of a challenging 10 lvl cavern where you begin again when you die - and even in the regular campaign - but not with a premade party.
  17. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    Don't make the mistake that thinking your experience is the majority experience. I'm sure there are others that hold your opinion, but that doesn't mean it's the majority opinion. You are the first post on the forums that I recall identifying that not being able to use one's own party is a problem with CoC (there have been a number who expressed trepidation with the difficulty of CoC, but you've already said that is not the problem for you). And there have also been a number of people in the forums who have expressed that they like CoC exactly as it stands.

    The forums are for expressing opinions and experiences, even negative ones. In that light, you are of course more than welcome to express yours, but may I caution against then taking your thoughts/experiences and ascribing them to the majority.
    Last edited: Oct 20, 2015
    ParodyKnaveBob, Led, karadoc and 6 others like this.
  18. Attachiant

    Attachiant Kobold

    I'm sorry but if the rate of 1/2% of completion is right you got a problem.

    And honnestly I haven't feel welcomed at all by the posts of flaxative to express my negative opinions. The way he spoke to me was rude.
  19. Pawndawan

    Pawndawan Champion of Cardhuntria

    AFAIK, 1 - 2 & completion rate refers to the number of runs, not the number of players. :)
    timeracers likes this.
  20. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    He didn't seem rude.

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