[Suggestion]Card ideas countering current meta offenders

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by piotras, Sep 5, 2014.

  1. piotras

    piotras Goblin Champion

    Some very rough ideas for future cards to bring the current meta in order.

    Feel free to throw in your suggestions for cards, but also mention how would it improve the current meta.

    Redirecting parry
    2+ block

    Block melee of 9 or more. The blocked card targets the attacker and is unblockable, but the damage is reduced by 8.

    Idea for a block that hits you back if you're using big damage attacks, but shines only when people go for the 17+ damage melee cards. Very specialised card similar in mechanics to Desperate Block and Pushback Parry.

    (Pic idea: a defender doing some ninja move that makes the attacker hit himself, a bit like Cause Fumble)

    Crusader's Breastplate
    armour 3, 4+, keep

    If an Unholy card would target you, cancel that card instead.

    So you can't be a target of drains and other bad cards like Mind Worm, Bad Luck or Demonic Revenge, but also no Demonic Power, Unholy Wellspring, Unholy Frenzy, Demonic Feedback, Unholy Energy or Accelerated Thought. Based on Arrogant Armor. Card idea as a response to the fast-growing popularity of vamps (they would need some armor removal cards or maybe even bringing a wizard just in case).
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2014
    j3st3ri likes this.
  2. j3st3ri

    j3st3ri Thaumaturge

    Ooh, I like Crusader's Breastplate. Here's another name suggestion for it: Plates of Purity.
    piotras likes this.
  3. piotras

    piotras Goblin Champion

    forgot about accelerated thought, it's also unholy magic.

    Plates of Purity could do too, anything is good as long as the mechanic stays ;)
  4. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Too binary for Crusader's Breastplate -- it would completely destroy vampire builds entirely. I think a better idea would just to add some anti-heal card like Hemorrhage and Open Wound.
    Lord Feleran likes this.
  5. j3st3ri

    j3st3ri Thaumaturge

    That's why there's sundering strike.
  6. piotras

    piotras Goblin Champion

    These cards could go in too.

    Having an armor like that would require pre-planning, having a few sundering strikes ready like j3st3ri said, or just exchanging one of your vamps to a support mage. It's not destroyed, it's just well rounded vamp build.
  7. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    Such 100% protect armors are dumb and you wanted it to be a nice armor on its own too lol, that's too much.
  8. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Just because there is a counter to a card doesn't mean it is good game design.

    Imagine this situation: "Armor: Negate all slashing and piercing damage." That means if you want to use slashing and piercing you have to take armor removal (and enough of it to reliably draw it in case the enemy gets the binary counter card fairly early), which means you have to weaken the rest of your build in case they have it. What if they don't have it? Well, now you have a lot of sub par cards that are designed for removing armor that doesn't exist and you'll lose a basic trade-out in attacks. This ultimately means that games are heavily decided before the match starts -- simply due to checks and counters. It isn't fun to know that you've lost before the game even started and is highly frustrating for everyone.
  9. piotras

    piotras Goblin Champion

    I wanted to copy the arrogant armor when it comes to stats, so it would be actually 4+. Mistake on my part, but anyway - I don't care much about the stats, just the mechanic.

    Well, we already have Arrogant Armor, Grounding Plates, Resistant Hide - if we follow what you said above all of these should be removed. Similarly, why would someone bring Hemorrhage and Open Wound to a fight if it only works if someone brought a priest that has healing spells. Wouldn't they weaken their build in all the other scenarios? My beloved smoke bomb build works poorly against three warriors or vamps, but that's the price of specialising.

    On another note - someone would be also weakening his/hers build by spending tokens on armor which only helps them against vamp builds and sacrifices the whole range of beneficial Unholy skills to achieve this. Shouldn't they be rewarded for building a deck around it?
  10. Sir Veza

    Sir Veza Farming Deity

    @Stexe has already come out in favor of nerfs to Resistant Hide, and all it really prevents in MP is electrical and fire damage (unless someone is running poison builds I don't know about). Arrogant Armor prevents attachments, but isn't great against initial damage. Preventing all unholy damage AND attachments covers a very wide spectrum, though admittedly it's all priestly.
    Thematically, a version of this would fit better as a divine armor. Drawing an unholy card while wearing it could result in damage and removal of the armor.
  11. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Just because we already have things that are binary in nature doesn't mean that they are good. I've been pushing hard to nerf Resistant Hide (and now Grounding Plate since its buff) for a LONG time. Arrogant Armor is problematic too, but not to the same degree as Sir Veza said -- damage is still dealt.

    You are required to take armor -- so they would at most be "wasting" 1 token to take a binary armor. The enemy would need to spend a lot more tokens to reliably draw counters on the off chance that the enemy gets it.

    Building around the idea of not using Unholy skills is easy to do and shouldn't reward a player by countering all other Unholy skills. You have the ability to customize your own choices, which means you can maximize your potential without a certain element. However, the enemy doesn't know what you have going into the battle and therefore can not maximize their own potential in the same way (people primarily build decks that synergize with other things they have, not things that synergize to stop certain enemies). Having single item that can stop huge builds reduced variety and simply makes things not as diverse or interestnig.
  12. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    1. Yeah, I don't really like Resistant Hide either.
    2. It's not only vampires that have unholy damage... every priest does. MF priests run Shuddering Relic and Nimbus priests run Shielding Token. +divine armor often gives an unholy attack.
    Stexe likes this.
  13. Accent

    Accent Hydra

    This exists. Only Bones. I wonder if that and Amorphous Body would see play in MP, if they were available on items. I'm sure Elf Wizards would like to be immune to Obliterating Bludgeons.
  14. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    That would be crazy. Warriors and priests have no way to remove it.
  15. piotras

    piotras Goblin Champion

    So in short, both of you believe that resistant hide et al sucks and you don't want more of that kind of stuff. Fair enough, I also have my nemesis that I can't believe is still in the game (looking you, Obliterating/Almighty attacks). I understand your point, although reserve my right to disagree ;)

    To accommodate for that, another version of the breastplate, but less 'binary'. What I would like to see is a card that is average, but shines when fighting against vamps. Not like Hemorrhage and Open Wound which are only good if you fight against priests and only in the case if they brought healing spells and attacks, otherwise you end up with what Stexe said:
    Aura of retribution
    armor 3, 4+, keep (or whatever)
    If an Unholy card would target you cancel that card instead and damage the attacker with 5 holy damage.
    (NO KEEP)

    So an average armor that deals damage if targeted by unholy magic. You still can't benefit from the whole range of beneficial unholy spells, however it stops priest's cantrip rage in its tracks. The thing is that it's not being kept after cancelling an unholy damage. Damage-dealing is in to make up for the fact that a Bad Luck or Mind Worm (which Vamps are using) and similar can very easily remove it.

    My enervating roots / healing priests doesn't ;)
  16. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    Which might well be the cause of your small rating.
  17. piotras

    piotras Goblin Champion

    I bet you got a nice eboner while typing that in, huh? :D

    I'm not obsessed about Elo, like you silly people looking for gratification in virtual worlds. Elo is there to place builds of similar strength at the same level, to make the game interesting and fairer at a certain level, if you prefer to use the cheesy builds and play against other copy cats - go for it. When I approach 1500 I always change my build to something new, get bored of playing the same builds over. Above that it's just toxic, game is boring, predictable and full of people of your type, bragging, ragequitting. I try many builds which I find fun and never use cards that I find lame, like Obliterating attacks or nimbus for example. So go attack people that bother about it :)
  18. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Actually they would due to Sundering Strike... but then every Priest and Warrior would have to run it just in-case or else they'd all move to Bludgeoning damage which would shift the meta and disrupt balance heavily.

    One change I've been pushing for on Res Hide / Grounding Plate is that it only prevents all damage if done from the front -- that way there is meaningful decision in flanking the enemy.
  19. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    No, it wouldn't trigger for Sundering and so won't be removed.
  20. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Yes, it would? Why wouldn't it... it just removes all damage from Slashing -- it doesn't stop their effects.

    Oh, you mean Amorphous -- sorry didn't see that. There is still Boiling Armor on a Warrior weapon though for that. But yeah it would still be silly.

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