Passing the Baton

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Jon, Dec 22, 2020.

  1. WhiteSorcerer

    WhiteSorcerer Guild Leader

    Sure, I said that because roguelike is a VERY popular formula in games. I had CoC in mind when I said it, I think it's a good move to refine it. I don't remember much about the mode because I mostly played multiplayer, but I think it would be a good idea to make a CoC run similar in duration and depth to a slay the spire run, a single run can generate content to a very long video:


    A year old roguelike game that haven't changed substantially since launch can still gather quite a lot of views for long videos today, while single player static games get stale fast.

    EDIT: Oh, I really didn't play it a lot, I found a long video of a CoC run on youtube, I recalled it being shorter, you're right! So I think promoting the mode can be the source of nice episodic videos of runs for content creators, we only lack the views, but I think the game has potential to reach them. I think having random characters with pre made decks randomly given to you kinda cheapens the experience thou, to me (and it being the trend) it would be an improvement having some decision over your deck instead, like drafting it and evolving it as the run progresses.
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
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  2. WhiteSorcerer

    WhiteSorcerer Guild Leader

    We already have a forum, to me an official discord would be redundant (and I much preffer the layout and structure of a forum). It would feel more organic to have groups of players create themselves their discords about the game, that would come naturally with an expanding playerbase. Why don't you create it and invite interested people to join?
     
  3. mikey76500

    mikey76500 Ogre

    Well.....

    Gast already said there was one, but, never bothered to give an invite link.

    @Gast86?
     
  4. Gast86

    Gast86 Orc Soldier

    Err..I've been there once and then cleared my browser history. I don't remember how that stuff works. I believe it was Gurjani that invited me. I'm fine with the forum myself.
     
  5. mikey76500

    mikey76500 Ogre

  6. Happenstance

    Happenstance Thaumaturge

    Discord invite link: https://discord.gg/6vgy3bj

    Unfortunately it was made when the game was already well into decline, which was reflected in the server activity.

    I think there is a need for the discord and the forum - they serve different functions for different people. It's actually weird when a game doesn't have a dedicated server.

    Voice chat, for those who are interested, makes co-op and especially Caverns 1000% more fun.
     
  7. Happenstance

    Happenstance Thaumaturge

    @Sir Civil more than happy to admin your team, PM your DC usernames.
     
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  8. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob Thaumaturge

    Howdy, all. $:^ J Especially, howdy, former and new teams behind Card Hunter! These are the particular handing-off quotes that edify me:

    Huge thanks and general appreciation to Jon, Farbs, Ben, Tess, and of course that Flaxy-come-lately we all love and horrify via AA. $:^ D I'm glad to hear Blue Manchu loving CH so much as to let it go. $;^ b Also, I'm sure

    Thank you, Knights, for your supposedly claimed allegations of reviving Cardhuntria (and, by association, Tournamentria). $:^ D Welcome to the insanity that is your new fanbase...

    "Never heard of any of their other outings" is most likely why I'm not playing it... But, glad to hear from a fellow-player good things about their work. Good spy job, gulo gulo, good spy job.
    Meanwhile! Yes! Not that I've looked at the battlefield for nearly a year (~exhale~), but I did create three awesome human wizards that @CT5 then expanded upon. Fun, viable, and no need for no shtankin' priests, hunh.

    What a bunch of people wonder, clearly:

    So tell us, huh? Huh huh huh?
    When do we get that fourth class with the 13, 17, and 21 health, equipping all those useless treasures filling up our inventories? Jeweler class here we come!!1

    Oh, well, I guess we also wonder stuff like... Will the campaign itself grow with more of the in-game-in-game unresolved issues like Mikey listed? Will we get a real Greenfang's Challenge? (and an un-bugged Gold Leaf Blade? lol) Can we get more laid-back content alongside the XTR33M high-difficulty stuff? (I liked Castle Mitternacht just fine, but I also appreciated Attack of the Artifacts bringing multiple difficulties.) Will we get (greattoken) and (ultimatetoken) items in the campaign after all these years? and yeesh, if you do introduce those, could we limit the insanity from PvP either entirely or partially (e.g., more than one Ranked list, special constructed leagues allowing level 22+ items)?

    Speaking of posts going over 15,000 characters...
     
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  9. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob Thaumaturge

    Thank you for the nod, Phoenix, definitely. Appreciated. I haven't touched it in a while for the same reasons as everything else, health and laptop issues. Hopefully, this will turn into a surprise blessing that I didn't "waste my time" when the much better alternative could maybe come instead. O, dear wise and otherwise adjectively complimented (The) Knights of Unity, especially with BM having desired to create a battle replay system long ago but never getting around to it, could you please override my 3rd party tedium of debug-log-reverse-engineering and create your own 1st party source-code-in-hand CH Battle Replayer? Pretty please? $:^ } With Were-Cake on top?

    On a related note, since Phoenix totally meant to mention the fan wiki, too, obviously, (lol,) it'd be super cool to make one of those little card-reader-thingies built into the forum linking even moreso to the wiki, where mousing over [item] names and [card] names would show a little pop-up like I've seen Magic and other games' communities be able to do...

    Actually, yeah, if this hasn't been done already,
    (I'm getting closer to being able to play again! really! heheheheh)
    this sounds like a pretty high-pertinence item. Comparatively quick to do and conveys such a more awesome message to anyone, old or new, logging on.

    On a slightly related note:
    ...could probably get a quick facelift, too. $;^ J

    Although I'm sure we'd all agree CH could use better marketing than it's historically received (due to time, budget, etc., I expect we all would also agree), my hope, my expectation is that with over a hundred lords and ladies within the unified castle walls, at least one lawyer, marketer, business major, and community wrangler each haunt the halls.

    Translation: (I could be utterly wrong, but) I don't fear that BM handed over CH to TKoU with no marketing plan/ability.

    *psst* Agreed. $:^ ,

    This is slightly off-topic, methinks, but I did want to comment while here, partly to show the new devs another perspective. The debates on Forms have been long and arduous, but I stand by Walpurgis Night as-is.

    I'm obviously not the best player in the land, but I have been in the top 25 in ranked, including bringing an Elf Wizard to 15-1600s at times iirc. I've played with WN and had quite a bit of fun with it. Are my builds weak? ~shrug~

    Let's pick a stronger player, then. Only the least informed kinds of players would say Scarponi can't build well, and he's briefly mentioned here or there that he's used WN to fine success, too.

    Tossing in one WN for kicks and giggles is one thing, but building around it, no no, that takes strategy and calculation. Just like Magic's Blue decks can utterly disrupt an opponent and even nullify a deck whose player doesn't prepare for it, WN (like the Whirlwind cards before it) disrupts your opponent, slowing the foe's tactics, forcing adaptation to (an admittedly small) alternative card pool temporarily. Furthermore, the player playing around WN has to not over-equip it because it does bring its own disadvantage. Playing WN does have built-in penalty. It's Utility|Handicap hybrid for a reason. 1. It's a Mandatory Action. There's no choice when to play it; one can only prepare asap for when it comes, and most likely you've built for it to come asap. That's not a Trait. It takes your whole turn with no opportunity for movement or anything. Equip too many, and you can lose multiple turns in a row before you can "start" the round, giving your opponent positional and planning advantage. 2. It's net card disadvantage. You play 1 card and draw 3 cards; your opponent draws 3 cards; you now have +2 total vs. your foe's +3 total. Equip too many, and you can practically empty your hands of constructed cards while filling your foe's with pure extras from Forms!

    EDIT: Forgot to say, the reason I believe Werewolves receive a good amount of Silver damage already is that wolves tend to rely on their built-in Armor 2 and easily accessed Armor 3 cards to shut down most incoming damage. Ontop that, with Creature Of The Night and even more Nightling from Howl being so popular on warriors, it's easy to get the extra Silver damage in there, too. So, a wolf comes tromping up to you thinking it's impervious, and BLAM, Silver to the face! Actual anecdote: an Armored-up wolf Mighty Charged my Elf Warrior for 15 damage; I gave back an Inquisitor's Strike for 17 damage! The wolf used a Vicious Thrust to step away from me, lol; my elf finished it off with an Impaling Stab. $;^ b

    While I'm here, I'll answer this, too. $F^ }

    Just as you didn't realize what Caverns was, I propose you haven't looked at Return to the Caverns, either. Construct your party for the whole run, hey hey. $:^ ]

    Me being from a different era, I suppose, "it's actually weird" when a game with a built-in chat raises a community who talks like a third-party chat is a necessity. You people do whatcha need, I guess. ~shrug~

    ~

    Oh hey! Look at that. I'm done quoting stuff. All righty, here's hoping The Knights of GameMaker Unity answer the floodgates soon, before they drown, lol! $X^ D

    Regards,
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2020
  10. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    considering that they're in Poland and looking for a position i could fit in with some practice, i might just try and find a spot there and hope for the best and some CH interaction from behind the scenes

    Rob's gonna hate me even more despite a 2 year gap
     
  11. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob Thaumaturge

    Ah, forgot a big question of my own to the Knights: will all future art be consistent and smithed by Ben Lee? $:^ D
     
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  12. WhiteSorcerer

    WhiteSorcerer Guild Leader

    Oh, I've completed it once years ago, got the multicolored crown, and saw the constructed mode popping up. What I'm pleading is for change on the first mode, I'd like it to be more like MTG limited modes or roguelike deckbuilders, not with prebuilt decks, but with some kind of selection from a random pool of cards, I think it would be funnier. Maybe some mix and match, having the option to have a random pre built focused character and having to draft the rest of the team around it, I donk know, but I think it has room for improvement. I was consciously referring to the first mode and aware of the constructed aftermatch.

    I wanted to say that but didn't want to sound too ancient :p
     
  13. mikey76500

    mikey76500 Ogre

    I wouldn't mind if it wasn't, just as long as it looks at least ALMOST as consistently good as Ben's work.
     
  14. Maniafig

    Maniafig Thaumaturge

    If CoC is to be really advertised as a feature, then it'd need more than a few revisions.

    There'd have to be a look-over of all the enemies that can spawn and whether their mob sizes/card draws per turn should be higher or lower. The worst offenders right now are Trolls (tedious), Assassins (3 per mob is too many) and various CM mobs (Frozen Skeletons, Zombie Priests). There'd have to be adjustments to the player characters, since several of them have absolutely boneheaded cards in their deck that make no sense for PvE content rather than the PvP content they were initially designed for like Trip, self-damaging traits and 1-for-1 non-Armor removal cards. And then there's the maps themselves, IIRC the new maps from the AI and CM expansions aren't in the caves and there's some league/AA maps in there but most aren't.

    A version of CoC where you draft your own decks instead of being stuck with the preset characters certainly sounds like a lot more fun too, after enough failed attempts at CoC I've gotten tired of running into some of the characters. Particularly that EttSC Wizard who doesn't even have any lasers. Absolute poseur, that guy.
     
  15. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    A drafted roguelike mode would be awesome. Caverns of Chaos was built with a lot of technical limitations and could be fleshed into a much juicier feature with the right amount of time and attention.
     
  16. Kaps

    Kaps Kobold

    Amazing, great news! +1 to a new drafted roguelike mode!
     
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  17. mikey76500

    mikey76500 Ogre

    I can't get behind a draft-type, COC-type module that has the possibility of having to fight Trolls, Rust Creatures, Werewolves or bosses such as Whorl or The Boulder, I'm sorry, I can't. COC is hard enough as it is.
     
  18. After all those "I want more of this" and "That is the worst" (that all are valid arguments), I wanted to get back to one essential question: Will you provide any information about the future of Card Hunter before Flash gets completely blocked on Jan 12th? Or on this note, answer any other question than since when the Knights are playing this game? Your initial post sounded quite positive, but until now you haven't really delivered based on your promises.
    And with this silver lining around (having a group of game developers taking care of this game who are focused on Unity and may therefore be able to overcome the current Flash-dilemma), there is one argument less to register for Steam for the time being. But only if there is actually a new Web-version coming some day. And you haven't spelled this one out yourself, the only statements in this post about a new Web-version are speculations by me and other community members.

    And in regards to attracting new players to this game: When will you reflect this acquisition on your homepage? Or on this game's main page.
     
  19. GerOge

    GerOge Kobold

    Yay! CH continues in some form! Welcome Knights! Been away a bit and catching up on the discussion. I'll try to keep my 2 cents brief.

    Tend to agree with most of what Bob said. WN is not a problem card. It is actually a workaround for balance issues largely introduced with the CM expansion. Exploitation follows imbalance. If the META is mostly always Vengeance, Wolves, and card draw... then you probly have a balance issue. WN allows you to briefly neutralize the META (most effective technique available) spammer-exploiters. A big part of the repeat playability of this game is MP. And a big part of my MP fun has always been creativity in building decks... and facing opponents who don't so much care about winning and are also making creative and fun builds (death to the META!). When I can't handle the MP spammer-exploiter-farmers and their 25 copies of Vengeance wolf-warriors, I break out my Walpurgis build and make them suffer until I feel better. You could, imo, roll back the whole CM expansion and do it again, with a better eye toward balance this time around. But cards like Walpurgis Night, Spark of Undeath, and Nightling plus Silver were awesome innovations that should be preserved in what comes next. Pls don't throw the baby out with the bath.

    Also wanted to add a quick thought to the sub-convo about popularity and expanding player base. One facet of this issue is probably ongoing abuse of the world chat and Reporting System. Most of the dwindling player base are real neat people I enjoy encountering and conversing with as part of enjoying the game. But vulnerabilities breed abuses and Blue Manchu never got rid of a couple vulnerabilities to the existing system:
    1) Reporting bad behavior is now totally unaccountable and easy to abuse with multi-accounts and toxic cliques. I have (a long while back) been a target, and it wasn't fun to receive an automated warning from the system for bad behavior I never committed... probly because someone decided they didn't like me. Took a longish break from CH on account of that and came back to find a much-dwindled player base with persistent toxic elements; the bad chased away the interesting and diverse from my POV.

    2)Multi-accounts are also being used, by a relatively small number of troublemakers, to have weird, creepy and toxic sock-puppet faux conversations, where if you are a younger or more sensitive person, you could easily get the wrong impression that a group of bully/trolls is hounding you. Serial abusers should have all their multis suspended and NOT have the option to just make a new account and then 5 more multis and continue the behavior.

    Ending on a strong positive note: Love, Love, Love CH and that some new folks are excited to breathe life into it again! <3
     
  20. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    now all you gotta do is get on discord yourself and do it lol
     
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