Frustrated with PvP

Discussion in 'Card Hunter General Chat' started by Shoe, Aug 26, 2013.

  1. Keyser

    Keyser Goblin Champion

    Maybe a solution to this, as well as the "MP ruined my SP campaign" problem, is to introduce players to MP later. Let them try it early if they want, but don't build it into the campaign until level 15(?) or so.

    I put off playing MP until I had finished the campaign, because I didn't expect to be competitive until then. And I think SP helps quite a bit with MP: you don't just have the gear, but you've had time to figure out how everything fits together. Then you are prepared to think about the uniquely MP problems: encumber with lava, nimbus, all-out attack, whirlwind, etc.
     
  2. progammer

    progammer Ogre

    Just to share my experience, that's precisely what I did when I first joined the beta 2 months ago. Having a few matches here and there in MP but the main focus is campaign. I refuse to change my default MP party and just roll with it to get the 2nd gold chest every day (which is around 4-5 matches). It wasnt really hard to win with that deck, but that could be because of the lower population back then. (The deck's rating is around 1200). Then once I finished the campaign (with little grinding), I jump back to optimize the deck (still default), swapping out races but still at the core warrior-priest-wizard. This time I focused on MP and the party's rating float around 1300-1400. A couple of weird builds and combination later, I break into 1500 with that party (albeit not standard strategy). I've been going back and fourth 1400-1500 trying out different builds for the last months.

    To be really honest, I've played "a lot" and grind "a lot" since then, and I still occasionally finds items to improve my build. Yet there are still items that I need to perfect the build that I have no realistic expectation to get unless I get insanely lucky. (legendary/epic). I have 5k gold sitting in my bank waiting for the rare shop to sell stuff worth buying.

    I maybe not the most competitive players out there, but I won't deny myself the thrills of acquiring these very rare items. Without the desire for these items, the game wont last long. If the game about loot doesnt have loots worth desiring, it will be dead within months.

    To sum up the wall of text: It isn't that hard for a newcomer to get the items you need to be competitive. If you really want to skip the campaign, shell out a few bucks for a couple of epic chest and buy the rares/uncommon from the shop. (I do criticize the fact that the high level shop is locked unless you play the campaign). That's the price to pay to get competitive right away, and it's the same for any cards game out there. At any levels of play, there will always be items you want. It's the same situation for anyone you will face.

    Don't be frustrated when you lose. Blame it on the card draw. Be patient and don't expect to get competitive unless you have some (not all) items. These "some items" are relatively easy to get and within anyone's reach. Losing will only make your next fight easier.
     
  3. Snacksmoto

    Snacksmoto Mushroom Warrior

    To be perfectly honest, neither am I. I'm actually a very PvE kind of player in a lot of games. Under normal circumstances I'd mostly avoid PvP until late game as well. Since this is still Beta, we're looking with many viewpoints and perceptions to find flaws and improvements which is what I'm attempting to do. Since I'm a new player, bring a very different perception than players who are building and testing the nuances of deep strategy elements such as infinite decks.

    You know as well as I that there will be players who have almost no interest in Campaign while screaming on the forums about imbalance in PvP that they may perceive.

    The current matchmaking system appears to be built to service a very large player base but appears to be showing flaws in servicing a small player base with these particular game mechanics. At the very core of my argument and stance is that there is a need to address the early MP adoption by players who are not equipped for higher rankings who could leave the game in frustration with premature reviews. (At least until the player base has grown into the matchmaking model.)
     
  4. kogi

    kogi Ogre


    Which is what they should be doing anyway
     
  5. Avarice

    Avarice Goblin Champion

    To me it's frustrating because I know going in that getting a win is basically a coin flip, and that to get the gold chests I'll have to take a beating or three. It's not pleasant. Some days I have time for one game, either MP or campaign. Other days I might have a couple of hours. There is no way I'm ever going to be competitive at a high level in PvP. I don't have the time to grind, or to even play regularly enough to keep up with the meta.

    I also think having incentivized MP is just begging for abuse. Why are there chest rewards for MP? The ranking/ status isn't enough to get people to play?

    I'd expect that the current symmetrical PvP is going to evolve into everyone playing one of about 3-5 builds pretty fast, (if it hasn't already) with optimal equipment clearly defined and the suboptimal substitutes widely known as well. There aren't enough different cards for anything else to happen. Is that fun? To me, it's just rock/ paper/ scissors at that point. Why bother?

    I suggested it somewhere else -- I'd love a MP "casual PvE" with one side playing monsters and the other side playing the heroes. The players could work out the details of the encounter - level/ map/ etc. That's the game mode that most closely matches up with the spirit of the old D&D playing sessions -- I don't recall PvP D&D...
     
  6. xienwolf

    xienwolf Goblin Champion

    I would advocate for 2 things:

    1) Winning against the AI does not increase your ranking. -- This will keep people who haven't been able to beat human opponents fighting against one another, thus more likely to find a human that they finally CAN beat. But lets them continue to face up against AI for gold chest chances.

    2) Do not send players to the MP area through campaign linked tutorial until level 15. -- However, if they open the MP lobby for themselves, give a pop-up stating that they are welcome to join now and may do just fine, but that they are not intended to enter until level 15. Should they click "Let me in anyway" then you trigger the full MP tutorial at that moment.


    I had been impatient and wanted to know what this gold chest was all about that I saw every time I logged in. So I did MP before the tutorial triggered. I was able to win matches against the AI with my junk from campaigns (and spending all of my free pizza on chests up to that point). It sure wasn't easy, but it did trickle in some better items, and I eventually started to win against humans as well. When the tutorial finally triggered for me (I didn't go back to SP for quite a while), I bought the dwarf pack after reading forums for advice, and wound up only using the step 2 dagger from the entire pack.

    Having the MP tutorial trigger when I walked in on my own would have been VERY helpful. But it is certainly not required at all. I was at least 1,000 before I finally got the free starter pack (I know because I had already lost to Mom once)
     
    Snacksmoto likes this.
  7. Shoe

    Shoe Mushroom Warrior

    My thought initially was, why do all multiplayer games have the same level? the level system works just as well as ratings IMHO to make players able to MP each other.

    Just pair users using average party level. If there are no matches, do what is done in campaign mode and lower the higher level team's characters down to meet the lower level team....obviously dev wise, that is a significant change, but it seems like it would help to me...thoughts?
     
  8. Swiffle

    Swiffle Mushroom Warrior

    Homogenizing multiplayer level simplifies a lot and keeps power level somewhat even. Also makes it easier to plan for and build around with a fixed number of both types of power tokens. Adjusting level would force the player to completely rebuild characters to account for less power tokens.

    I would think increased player pool will ease this problem substantially. Beating the AI shouldn't rank you up so fast though.

    Don't really like delaying the players' introduction multiplayer to later in the campaign, it was fun to get into PvP early, and see how it worked.

    Was there any thought to a pauper type mode? Only commons and uncommon items? Just curious
     
  9. Shoe

    Shoe Mushroom Warrior

    It seems like to me, weapons need to be equalized then as well. Maybe items purchased in single player mode just plain old shouldnt follow over into MP mode? almost like 2 separate games. Even if level and power tokens are equal, if one player has no weapons that even NEED power tokens and the other player has appropriate leveled items, there will be a horrible stomping. It's not really a level playing field if one player just plain old has better stuff
     
  10. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    Why yes, someone did think of that.
     

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