First impressions thread

Discussion in 'Card Hunter General Chat' started by Jon, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. TekDragon

    TekDragon Kobold

    Was fun up until The Throne of Stench, where-upon I came to this forum, saw this thread, and decided to leave my opinion.

    There is absolutely nothing enjoyable about a game where you rely on the RNG to give you a perfect 20. On the Throne of Stench, despite being 1 level higher than the encounters, I am running into waves of monster who deal 4-6 damage per hit from range and regularly have 2 armor cards blocking 2 damage each that proc 4/6ths of the time.

    My party, meanwhile, is lucky to draw 3 damage cards total per turn. I often go 2-3 turns in a row without drawing a single damage card on my warrior. My F*CKING WARRIOR. That's right, my F*CKING WARRIOR goes 2-3 turns in a row drawing nothing but run and walk cards and maybe a junk block card.

    When I do draw a damage card, the high reliability of enemy armor means I only do 1-2 damage, or nothing at all.

    This game is a badly balanced mess and while I have no doubt I could beat this encounter, I have no absolutely no wish to:

    1. Play the 20+ times needed to get the "perfect rolls" I would need to do so.
    2. Spend real money so I can get rares and "pay to win".
    3. Grind out a bunch more levels to beat an encounter that is already below my level despite every single one of the enemies having better armor, better weapons, equivalent health, larger draws, and more units.

    Knowing that, farther along, are even more bull**** battles that require even higher degrees of luck from the RNG makes my desire to play even less.

    This game takes the RNG of rogue-likes and mixes it with a random-draw ability pool system that makes each battle far less about skill and far more about luck than any other rogue-like I have played. As frustrating as that is, it's down-right insulting when you realize the entire point is to sucker you into the cash shop.
  2. Zalminen

    Zalminen Hydra

    If you are having problems with trogs, you should try changing your deck and your tactics a little.
    • Attacks with keyword Penetrating skip armor completely.
    • There are also cards that force the enemy to discard: Wavering Faith, all acid attacks etc.
    • Crude Plates doesn't protect from behind so lure the enemy between two characters and pound the brute from two sides. Or move one guy next to the trog which will often make the enemy retreat and turn its back on you allowing you to blast it from behind.
    • If your attacks do too little damage, you can boost them with Righteous Frenzy / Unholy Frenzy
    • If you constantly draw too many movement cards, try using boots that have attacks/armor instead. Remember, you will always draw your racial movement cards every turn so you don't necessarily need any additional move cards from your items.
    Throne of Strench isn't easy but it certainly doesn't require perfect rolls to beat.

    As for money - I know it's quite possible to beat all adventures without spending anything. I know because I did it during the beta and many adventures were much harder then than they currently are...
  3. TekDragon

    TekDragon Kobold

    You're assuming I'm stupid or something.

    My warrior has 3 weapons all of which stack penetrating attacks. My mage is stacked discards. My priest has both righteous frenzy and unholy frenzy.

    The game is still based 95% on the RNG and 5% on skill. As a gamer who has played Tactics Ogre on the SNES all the way up to Europa Universalis and Hearts of Iron on PC, I know strategy and games that require it. This game requires as much skill as Candy Land. It's all dice rolls.
  4. Gerry Quinn

    Gerry Quinn Goblin Champion

    Nobody's assuming you're stupid. But the fact is that this level can be beaten with the right tactics using the typical drops that you get doing each mission up to it once or so.

    Everyone can lose the odd mission due to bad luck, but if you are losing over and over you are doing something wrong.

    As well as penetration and hitting from behind, patience is useful. Trogs are cowards and will often move away if they are out of attacks, exposing their backs. (In fact a lot of tactics in this game involve deciding *when* to use a card, e.g. before of after the monsters move.)
  5. Card hunter is one of the coolest games that has come out in the last ten years. It's probably one of the most interesting turn based games that's come out since x-com enemy unknown, but i feel like people take it less seriously because it's a new IP and because of the more humorous aesthetic choices, like making it look like a tabletop game.
    That aesthetic works for this game, though. It feels like a really great board game combined with a really great card game, and those two things working together almost perfectly.

    I like that it doesn't hold your hand and tell you exactly what to do, but at the same time, that seems like it causes a lot of trouble for people, making the game less accessible for people that don't understand what it is. Every part of the campaign is supposed to be difficult. That's why it's matched with your level.
    If you are having trouble getting through this game, stop for a second and think about what you can do differently. You would be surprised how effective switching out a few items can be if you are stuck on a level. It really DOES matter whether you have a way of dealing with good armor or good blocks, which are, in my experience, the two toughest things to deal with. Keep an eye out for cards that make opposing characters discard (priest), acid damage (wizard), and penetrating attacks (warrior.)

    Anyways, i'm not a master of this game, my characters are still less than level 10, but i see a lot of senseless complaining in threads about this game when, the reality is, the person complaining generally isn't being very thoughtful about their play. Unless I'm reading it wrong, this is the type of game that you're supposed to think about and respond to new challenges by adapting your strategy. That's actually one of the coolest parts about this game, there's like a little meta game you have to play concerning your equipment choices. Acid attacks or penetrating attacks against an unarmored opponent are less useful than more damaging attacks, but if you don't have them against armored opponents, you're pretty much screwed.

    The only thing i request of bluemanchu is continued support for the game and periodic rebalancing, epecially as new sets are introduced. I am definitely buying the basic set and maybe some pizza. I would also like it if there were more ways for players to earn pizza that didn't require paying cash, because that seems more fair for people who want to play for free.

    This is my favorite game right now and i recommend it to anyone i know who likes board games or turn based tactical games. The game system is no more unfair than other turn based tactical or board games. Honestly, i feel the RNG for this game is probably MORE fair than enemy unknown.

    Also the game isn't totally dependent on the RNG. It's based on probability. Higher level gear has cards that require lower dice rolls, giving you a higher chance of successfully blocking/getting damage reduction from armor. Part of the system is understanding that sometimes an armor 1 that requires a 1 roll is better than an armor 4 that requires a 6 roll. What you lose in potential damage reduction you get back in guaranteed damage reduction.
  6. And also, if you're never drawing attack cards on your warrior, either you have too many extra movement/armor/block cards on your equipment, or you're trying to be too aggressive. When i get a bunch of move cards i retreat and wait for the round to end, then discard to 2. If you are expecting to just stand next to an enemy and attack until they are dead, you're basically only going to be able to do that at the start of a game, if you're over leveled for that encounter, or if you get a couple of perfect draws in a row.

    I'm not saying the game's perfect, it definitely needs some tweaking, just that a lot of the stuff people are complaining about is a valid part of the game and actually makes things more interesting. If you just want to stand next to a monster and click until they are dead, play diablo. In cardhunter it's really more beneficial to consider what you're holding before moving in for an attack.
    Sorry for the double post.
    Will- and Boarfarion Nambruliser like this.
  7. Zariaswell

    Zariaswell Kobold

    HI !

    Well, I'm franch so pardon me...

    1 - I really love the gameplay. Very very fun to play.
    2- Graphics are simple but good !
    3 - The tutorial is usefull / But I was a bit confused about the token thing. Maybe it should be in the tutorial so I don't use all my money in an item I can't use at low level
    3- I was really confused about campain / multiplayer. I had suddenly a bunch of cool items I couldn't use in the campain mode... really disturbing. I'm pretty sure I sold one of them by mistake. I don't see the point of having the free multiplayer characters accessible in campin mode ???

    Well, That's all folks. Keep the good work !

    See ya
  8. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

  9. That's a really cool promotion.
  10. Awesome, awesome game to play. Very funny background, very ironic, good adventures, good battles, great design... it's a masterpiece with only about one major flaw (read on).

    I've just played intensively for a day and run up to the level 7 adventures where I ran out of steam and started losing consistently and needed to rethink my strategy. I need to begin again probably and be much more cautious about selling items for a paltry 1gp that would turn out to be very useful later. I would probably say, at this point, never sell items, only treasure, maybe until you have got multiple copies of the same item. Because item variety is essential to be able to vary your card deck in order to meet different challenges.

    Having said that, I do fear that the basic game mechanics have a serious flaw. Basically you get too many cards and not enough slots to draw the cards into, no real mechanism to discard to get a new card (except between rounds), and what happens is that your card 'hand' gets flooded with cards that may be useful in some other situation, but aren't useful right now. The situation of the fighter and cleric drawing no attack cards becomes increasingly common. Item changes can effect this to a slight extent, but they can't eliminate it, particularly as you get more and more item slots. There is no way to 'empty' an item slot - it keep generating cards, just really crap ones.

    Some kind of change to the basic card draw mechanics is needed. Some options

    • Maybe one discard-and-draw of a card, per level of the character, at the start of the round?
    • Or redraw the entire hand ('new hand') a number of times up to the level of the character?
    • Or draw (and hold) one card per level of the character at the beginning of the round?
    • Or draw one card per level of the character at the beginning of the round, then discard down to X cards (ignoring attachment effects)
    • Or allow that an item slot deliberately left empty, generates no cards into the character's deck.
    Apologies if there is a way to do this within the existing game mechanics, but I haven't discovered it.
  11. What i do in that situation is use the extra move cards to evade enemies, then wait for the round to end and discard down to 2.
    I actually think of that as an important part of the game. If you're playing the tactical game correctly, you will never find yourself standing next to a melee enemy without melee attack cards in your hand, but you may find yourself with four-five move cards. It's sub-optimal and doesn't give you an advantage automatically, but if you can out-compete your opponent for positioning, it won't matter how many attack cards they have.
    Basically, running away is how you screen your deck. I use the discard to 2 mechanic in almost every game when i'm looking for cards.
  12. Ah, ok. thanks. That's what I've been doing to - running away and discarding until I get attack cards. Of course that only works if your extra cards are movement cards. But yes, more generally, avoiding a fight and discarding down to 2 cards unless I get some attack cards. It seems kind of weird. But I guess if that is how the game is played...

    It's a bit odd for new players like me. Also although I have played some card games, I'm more used to RPG games, so I'm coming at it from that side. It might help if there was an explanation along those lines, even blindingly obvious like "you can't always attack, sometimes you need to wait until the right opportunity [= cards] comes along."

    Thanks though!
  13. Yeah, i know. When i first started playing this game it struck me as kind of funny too. I mean, it's totally unsatisfying to draw move or armor cards when you're trying to lay the last few damage on an enemy, but if you keep in mind that by moving you can actually cause enemies to discard attack cards (by being out of range so they can't play them before the discard phase,) it's really not as bad as people make it out to be.
    Also, wear boots that have minimal move cards, and don't get backed in corners.
  14. TheWumpus

    TheWumpus Kobold

    Here's my first impression: Melvin is a jerk and I don't like him. Yes, I understand he's a fictional character in a video game and everything he says is written dialogue to make him that way. I've met guys EXACTLY like him. No fun at all to play with.

    Other than that I'm enjoying it thoroughly, and using the tried and true all dwarf strategy. If it doesn't work the first time, hit it with a bigger axe.
    Card Hunter Joe likes this.
  15. Silicor

    Silicor Kobold

    Having played a little in the beta, I decided to put out the $25 to "buy the game". I've completed the campaign and still have barely spent any gold(less than 200). I have 250 pizza and 2300 gold. I felt the bonus equipment from the club and bonus missions gave me everything I needed to make it through without any grinding. I had one battle where I was stuck (had to revive twice) but I did make it through...barely. My initial party was a dwarf fighter, dwarf cleric and human mage. I'm working on leveling more characters to try out new tactics. I like how different the missions feel with different race/class combos. I'm trying two mages and a cleric now and It seems easier so far.

    Good job guys, I feel the balance and challenge is at a good level. I also don't feel assaulted by the micro-transaction model, even though I don't like it. I'm sure one day I'll wander in and try out multi-player, but I haven't felt the desire yet. Lastly, I was happy to see the quests. I can see me chipping away at them over the next few months when I need a gaming fix.
    Pengw1n likes this.
  16. Andrew Talbot

    Andrew Talbot Mushroom Warrior

    Well, I got the game four days ago (bought into the club anyways, I realize the game itself is free).

    Mostly fine leveling, playing, laughing. Skipped the level 13 treasure run entirely, until that point I had never failed a mission entirely (three deaths) and when I learned about reviving I wasted another 30g on the treasure hunt before abandoning it. Now I'm at this Blackwood mission four levels later and stuck there. I can beat the first two levels fine, but the last one with the acron bombardment and the melee trees is just trying my patience incredibly.

    I've been told my treasure hauls have been lucky (8 Legendary items with one being a treasure, tons of Epic/Rare), and I've won 2 multiplayer games lost one, the one I lost was an auto-loss since the game didn't warn me to add players back into the MP party, so I entered the game unknowingly without a party... -_-

    All-in-all I'm shocked at the quality of this game for a flash game, happily enchanted by the gameplay, yet frustrated atm due to these scenarios that I've tried with all manner of gear permutations I currently have on tap. I can see myself playing the game for a decent amount of time since it fills a little of the gap IRL DnD doesn't since I can pick up a mission here at any time. I already can see the potential in the game/combat system so I'm looking forward to being here for a few years to come.

    Edit: Just an update but I finally beat that second to last Darkwood mess of a lvl 17 adventure. The melee trees rushed the party for once instead of kiting around and the spreading oak couldn't get LOS since they choked up all routes in/out. Wizard eliminated in the first few rounds, but the cleric managed a recovery from 2 hp and the warrior got lucky when I stacked a three straps, a reliable mail, and heavy armor onto him to compliment his parries.
    Pengw1n likes this.
  17. renders

    renders Kobold

    my first impression was wow this game was made for me
  18. Luvie

    Luvie Kobold

    My first (and second antd third) impression: this is GREAT. Nice graphic, good mechanics, funny as hell, really challenging and NO ptw. It also reminds me of Hero Quest so i must love it ^^
    Only one black mark: i've finished it (normal campaign not quests)!
    You definitely have to unlock the rest of the map. Me and some friends are struggling :D

    Really great job guys ^^
  19. breezyhunter

    breezyhunter Kobold

    You can give this guy crap for saying this, but in a way he's right. Although I wouldn't quite put it as "eloquently" as he did. I respect the guys who made this game, you can tell they put a lot of love in it just by reading everything. It's in the writing. This is an incredible game and I plan on sticking with it for a long time.

    With that said. It's not a coincidence when myself and my dozen or so friends who discovered this game (and really love it, by the way!) all hit around level 7-8 and then suddenly hit a wall at the -same- place. It's not about difficult or not difficult. It's about ridiculous. The trogs are running around with at least 2 armor cards that require a roll of -3- to block 4 damage. I don't start seeing gear till level 15+ with those sort of stats. So there does seem to be a disparity between level and gear in terms of monsters.

    I understand that you can utilize different decks to deal with this - and I've tried, much to the same result. This goes into another inherent problem: the drawing card's inherent problems. I have a warrior with a deck full of penetrating attacks and I rarely see them. Because most of the time I'm drawing too many move cards. Because of the mechanics of this game, there should be a bit less randomness with card drawing.

    Also, you should provide an alternative to armored opponents. (Say, magic?) The first time standard armor began blocking my spells, it completely baffled me. Since when does armor soak up spell damage? This game needs alternate avenues to defeat a battle besides just stacking penetrating attacks. Because, let's face it. All you need really to win this game is three warriors with penetrating attacks. That covers -everything- until you run into undead. (I've done this, if you haven't hit the higher levels, take my word for it.) Then just switch it up. See the problem? You should separate magic damage from standard damage that is blockable by armor. And this change would not break the game. Why? Because it's the alternate method of dealing with armored opponents. It encourages you to play different classes to handle different situations. So in another battle, you can equip monsters with shimmering armor that blocks magic attacks. Same deal, forcing the players to adjust. The difficulty is still there, it's just dealt with differently.

    I found the game sufficiently difficult up till around level 7 or 8 with the trogs. Agree or disagree, magic needs to be an alternative to armored opponents. Regardless of which direction they're facing. It's just silly right now. And before you start telling me to adjust my deck, please don't insult my intelligence. I know what I'm doing. ;) I'm just playing devil's advocate here and putting a spotlight on something I feel (my opinion) is an issue that should at least be looked at.

    With that said, whoever said this game was "pay to win" is far from correct. I've found that the game is quite playable whether you pay for it or not. Paying doesn't give you a leg-up against free gamers. So you have a chance for an extra piece of gear, the gear isn't anything "more awesome" than anything you can potentially pick up. I think they've got a good system going right now with the way they've done their payment methods. In fact, I'd say it's pretty damn charitable in comparison to other - much worse - games out there.

    Look at the writing, read everything, like the campaigns and the boy GM. You can tell they put LOVE into this game. When you see that kind of quality of writing, you know the game is gonna be around for awhile. They'll listen and tweak accordingly. But don't be an asshole, or people will immediately scoff your critiques, even if they may have some weight behind them.
  20. Zalminen

    Zalminen Hydra

    Magic is already a good alternative against armored opponents.

    Acid spells.
    Any discard spells.
    Hell, pretty much any kind of attacks work against Crude Plates if you lure a trog between two of of your heroes and alternate hitting it from both sides.

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