[Feedback] Upcoming Balance Change MEGATHREAD

I'm surprised there hasn't been an official announcement on this yet: http://www.cardhunter.com/2014/08/balance-changes-round-four/

Anyway, I really like the changes being made in this part 4, shows that not only does BM listen to some serious feedback, but also realises it made some egregious errors with regards to certain things. Good work team!

 

All of those sound like solid changes, tho one thing puzzles me.

Maybe I misread it but it was my understanding that Wall of Stone was changed to Flash Flood. However in the utility card change it mentions Both Wall of Stone and Flash Flood as being changed to Utility Cards. Does that Mean Wall of Stone is still going to be a thing in the game or? Just curious

 

Wall of Stone may return at some point in the future.

 

Since we seem to be approaching completion of the balance overhaul, I'd like to point out two areas I feel haven't been strongly addressed so far.

Elf/Human Wizards: I see even less reason to run these than before the overhaul. While I understand that not all cards and items are meant to be the same power level, should that really be true of basic character options as well? Both are still vastly inferior to picking a dwarf wizard. The human wizard option might be made viable by improving human skills, but this still leaves the Elf Wizard in the same sad state of affairs. Suggestion: adjust HP gaps/progression to make theses characters less squishy! At lvl 18, something like +2/+3 HP for elves, +1 HP for humans.

Human Skills: Dwarves had the strongest skills for a long time, and Aota added a bunch of high-power elf skills to help bring them in line with the dwarves. But what about humans? While their access to "move, team!" cards is a slight buff, they've gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to encumbrance. Suggestion: Buff human skills! There's also the expansion approach as was done with elves, but that was kind of a bummer since it made tons of items obsolete.

 

I feel like Team Run is still a non choice and almost every high level player will run multiple copies in their build.

I strongly suggest nerfing the base movement of the card from 4 to 3. I think this makes a lot of sense in terms of both balance and flavor. 4 movement isn't a Run, it's a Dash.

 

Addressing this is something we'd like to do, but adjusting HP gaps is not on the table as far as I know. Also, it's not very easy to make human/elf wizards more viable simply by adjusting existing cards. What I'd like to do is introduce cards in a future expansion that'll push these archetypes.

It's worth noting that the Command line got a major relative buff in light of control nerfs.

 

I suppose its possible to say that because control is much more limited, command moves are more powerful in moving one's own characters relative to control and in this way they were buffed (I believe that's what you're saying here). However, one could also say that because command was a counter to control and encumber, with them getting nerfed there is not as much need (and therefore less value) for the command line in game play. Two sides of the same coin I suppose.

 

Actually, I've been thinking that "move, team" cards are relatively better with the step attack/whirlwind nerf, not the control nerf.

Step attacks are no longer the easiest way to get around, and a well-played Sprint, Team! can no longer be easily disrupted by a single whirl. So that's an improvement! But on par with the other races? Not sure... I've played maybe a dozen matches on test with the new changes, and have had my "move, team!" cards be both useless and invaluable. They seem very effective against control teams, and like dead draws vs melee teams. But will control still be popular with the control nerfs? I guess we'll just have to wait and see...

 

I was throwing around ideas wondering if Human Wizards would be interesting to play if All Out Attack worked on any attack, not just melee (but only calculated base damage, not any buffs). Would probably be too strong due to the fact of range and AoE potentialities, but right now Human Wizards seem to be one of the weakest choices.

 

I don't see a balance between pros and cons of command cards, which wouldn't be so bad if they wouldn't be the main reason to run humans:

Reasons I see why human command cards (the Walk, Team like) are not so great to justify using a human team (cons):
1) Against melee, command cards are only very good at the beggining of the match to get first to the vps. But once that area gets crowded, they quickly drop their value, when you really wish to draw some attack or block instead of a command card.
2) When some of your guys dies, command cards instantly lose half their value.
3) The avalaibility of Team Run for all races makes human's command cards less exclusive and less valuable.
4) Control nerf (encumbrance and slide cards) means that you don't need to rely on command cards to reach wizards.
5) WW and WWe annihilation is maybe the reason why command cards have lost the most of their original value.

Reasons to use humans with command cards (pros):
1) Step attacks nerf.


So, as I said, it doesn't look balanced. Feel free to object or add any reason for the pros or the cons.

 

This is probably the biggest reason humans feel underwhelming as a race choice. Team Run is just better than any of the human team moves. If it didn't exist humans would probably be overrepresented as there'd be no other way to get significant team movement. Yet another reason to nerf Team Run.

 

I do think you should analyze all Human abilities rather than just their access to Command. Right now they have All Out Attack and Leadership for good cards. The rest are pretty meh.

 

There's only one human racial skill with All out Attack, and two with Leadership but only one that's worthy. I'm talking about Superb Command and Advanced Flexibility. Of those 2 cards, only Flexibility is exclusive to humans, because you can put 2 All Out Attack in any warrior via helmets and martial skills.

So, besides commands (which aren't so exclusive because of the availability of Team Run for all races), we have only 2 human racial skills that could be considered good. Of those 2, only one is exclusive to humans. And the one that is exclusive, is reduced to one item, so there's no real choice there. I hardly think that is the kind of variance BM wants to see in their game.

The awesome and not nerfed exclusive dwarf Toughness is in seven racial skills, 3 of which are great (Solid Rock, Raging Rock and Perfect Toughness) and at least 1 more that is playable (Advanced Toughness). Elves have several racial items to choose between the good exclusives Slippery, Elven Trickery and Elven Manouvers. So, why is that humans only get, asides from command cards (which aren't so great as I have said before) only one good (not even great) item with an exclusive card (Advanced Flexibility)?

 

Humans also have Inspirational Thinking but they come with 2 less than stellar cards and require major tokens on all 3 items.

All Out Attack isn't very good and will only get worse depending on how popular Cause Fumble gets. Leadership may get you to the cards you need quicker but it is still card disadvantage for the character running it and it forces you to play Slowed.

There is no doubt humans will need some love in future expansions.

 

Getting another All Out Attack can be very strong as you can plan for most things in the game except for Cantrip and/or All Out Attack bonus damage. But yes, Humans need huge buffs which I've been pushing towards for a LONG time.

 

After some games I played with 3 DWC on the main server, I can tell that the new SPR is very cool and perfectly balanced. Moving 1 is better than it used to be since opp can't fly 4 squares and attack me with a cantrip 6/9 damage attack.
Removing 1 of opp's war's cards AND increasing the distance between us by 1 is good enough. Also, it can be used to discard a card from a wizard and then leave his LoS etc. Cool

 

Can I be the thousandth person to whine about how the nerfs affect the SP on 1HP quests?

The changes in MP are designed to keep players interested in CH as a game, I get that. It's the same thing as the slightly more powerful items which were introduced during AotA (i.e. tokenless Twisting Shield) - it keeps players on their toes and tinkering with their MP builds.

But the cost of that is that many of the 1HP quests, previously very difficult, are now Battletoads difficult. I don't mind spending a bit of coin to get the right card drop (the Binding of Xanthicus tested the very limits of this, though), but the idea of farming for gold to pour down a pit of bottomless difficulty doesn't appeal. I'll stick to 3 or 6 win MP and the Loot Fairy until BM balances the 1HP quests.

How's this for a thought? 1HP now allows healing up to the natural character HP limits. People who've ground through the quests previously will scream, but they had WWEs, WoSs, WoWs and FSs that actually worked. Sure, people will take 3x Priest to stack heals, but these maps will still be very difficult for priests with a deck full of healing cards and limited offensive options. Vampire builds would still be vulnerable as they close to sucking range.

 

I think restoring WoS and FS for SP as they were would be a better solution than allowing to heal over that 1 hp. Not that I could see a reason to play these 1 hp quests anyway

 

Having different MP and SP effects on the same card is another solution, perhaps harder to implement and harder for players to remember? You're talking to the guy who can't seem to remember the new balance changes anyway. I've fireballed my own party twice in MP already, while the other team are safe across the map.