[Feedback] Upcoming Balance Change MEGATHREAD

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by Questor, Jul 29, 2014.

  1. Questor

    Questor Ogre

    Do you plan to have different versions for MP and SP?
    Or is it your intend to punish people who like to play Singleplayer as in other games?
    It is always the same ****, some things become very powerful in a pvp part of a game and the balance changes effect the larger number of people who don´t care about pvp.

    We know that it is possible to have different rulesets for the same card, so please consicer the balance changes only for the MP part of the cards.
  2. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    Are you talking about Firestorm?
  3. boopn

    boopn Kobold

    I understand that Firestorm is powerful because it affects everyone on the board, but I never felt it was overpowering in multiplayer at all. A simple armour card negates its effect and I don't see any high level players using it. I love it for farming and changing it will discourage farming and the attraction of playing everyday.

    For step attacks I feel like quickness aura and rushing aura should now affect them positively. What am I to do with my 2 Vibrant Pains that I farmed so hard to get? It becomes completely useless now.

    I like the change in Whirlwind.

    Will there be something else wizards can use to defend themselves now that they can't use SPR? Sure it was a powerful card, but with range three it becomes very situational and not as useful. I guess I won't be running my Bewlin's Baffling Bauble anymore.

    Hard to judge overall, as we'll have to wait and see what the buffs are so reserving judgement. I just know that items that were hard earned have become useless now. Maybe that's necessary, but it still hurts
  4. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Vibrant Pain is still a good item. :)
    Lord Feleran likes this.
  5. Huey Laforet

    Huey Laforet Orc Soldier

    Great! Just got a VP on Sunday and now they're gonna nerf it. :(
  6. Questor

    Questor Ogre

    I am talking about all of it. Whirlwind is essential for some 1hp quests as it is now.
    Same goes for Firestorm but this one is also useful for the people who like to finish quests as fast as possible because you can spend years with your current item system getting something special. You might want to look into the Random Loot is a Horrible Motivator thread. Especially the disenchant suggestion.
    And SPR and the current step attacks are a good way to counter the annoying Mobs with tons of blocks and parries.

    I read that this game was initally planned only with the SP part. Please keep that focus and don´t make the same mistake other game developers made and will make. To cater to the loud minority of pvp players.
    Take a look at Obvious Maneuver and build on that idea.

    I don´t know if you personally played the 1hp and reduced level quests for the higher level adventures but with the ww and fs changes they will move from hard/frustrating to wtf?!/impossible.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
    wavy and Sir Veza like this.
  7. Vakaz

    Vakaz Guild Leader

    Hey folks!

    Now that we have our first look at the upcoming balance changes, I thought I'd make a thread for feedback.

    My initial thoughts:

    Whirlwind/Whirlwind Enemies - These changes are pretty reasonable, although I might suggest upping the shuffle distance to 3 squares? At 2 squares, I can't imagine any situations where I would actually use ww/wwe except in maybe a few sp maps.

    Firestorm - I think this change is just right. The card can still be built around, but should help minimize camping (some players might be not be happy how this affects SP). Also, my few good firestorm items still seem pretty good with this change.

    Long Step Cards - While I agree that these cards need to be changed, it concerns me that these balances don't address the itemization issue. I think it would take some messing around on the test server to evaluate these changes.

    Short Perplexing Ray - I think this nerf might be a little too harsh. But like the changes to step moves, I think it would take some toying with to evaluate.

    Wall Of Stone - At first I thought "Wall Of Stone isn't very good (proof!), why are they bothering to nerf/replace it?". But then I looked at Flash Flood... it actually looks interesting! One thing that might make either card more playable is simply allowing an extra square of terrain.

    Meta - The biggest issue I see here is that it seems like control wizards are not losing much in terms of power (a bit from SPR), but gaining a lot with their three biggest threats being nerfed (Step, WW/WWE, Firestorm). I'd hate to see all these balance changes go through just for us to wind up with one dominant build again...
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
  8. Huey Laforet

    Huey Laforet Orc Soldier

    3DC's gonna rule again...
  9. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Interesting choices... basically all the things I pointed out in my balance thread. :-P

    I think NS and Firestorm are being hit a bit *too* hard. NS would be strong but not the best with Step 3. Maybe if Dancing Cut also became Step 2 it would work out with it being okay at Step 2?

    And FS being only range 5. Unsure on that yet. I'd probably set it to at least range 6.

    I'm not sure I agree on Flash Flood though. Thematically it is going to be weird to have "Wallbuilder" throwing down water. But mechanistically it is going to be still super strong due to the low amount of Flight in the game and probably make Wizards even stronger in that they can shoot over it.

    Why not just make it so Wall of Stone can be removed by other cards? It would be like Illusory Barrier but prevents movement.

    EDIT: I see you're changing Dancing Cut to range 2 as well. Must have missed that. Seems like a good change then.
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
  10. boro

    boro Goblin Champion

    Please don't change anything for SP ! :eek:
    I invested hundreds (1000?) of hours to finish the quests (almost there), I don't want the remaining ones to become impossible because of the firestorm/wall of stone nerf.


    Me too :(
  11. blackhand

    blackhand Kobold

    I don't own any Vibrant Pains, so I don't mind the changes that much. ;)

    The step values for Nimble Strike and Dancing Cut can be switched as a more reasonable fix. Nimble Strike with Step 3 and Dancing Cut with Step 4. Make the weakest attack have the most movement. There aren't many items with multiple Dancing Cuts, so it'd be harder to stack than Nimble Strike.

    I don't think Firestorm needs a nerf. With the card draw spam all but eliminated, Firestorm teams aren't as viable.

    Whirlwind changes seem pretty good. That's the change I'm most looking forward to.
  12. neoncat

    neoncat Feline Outline

    Firestorm is definitely the most significant SP change, followed Wall of Stone. I only used WWE for maybe one of the 1hp quests.

    The Firestorm change will unfortunately make SP farming much more time consuming. I doubt it'll be worth the time investment, so I hope there's something in the offing for that sort of long-term SP grinding.

    The combined changes to Wall of Stone and Firestorm means that several 1hp quests will become impossible. On those maps, the only option is to hole up behind walls, wait to draw a full set of Resistant Hides, and then firespam.

    WWE was only necessary for maybe one or two maps.

    And of course, it's good to keep in mind that the 1hp elder mind adventure is already effectively impossible unless you've got a bunch of legendary firestorm equipment along with a couple hours and a couple thousand GP to spend on retries.
  13. neoncat

    neoncat Feline Outline

    Well, Jon does still need to describe all of the small card changes. For example, WoW now only slides 2.

    I'm actually going to predict that Encumber is now OP, given the absence of excess move on warriors.
  14. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    I waited a couple of hours to post because I wanted to post thoughts not reactions. As a whole I've stayed out of balance talk because I think it's a thankless job that will always leave someone unhappy, so I'll keep this short and note that I support the effort and offer my appreciation for that whether or not I end up preferring the new over the old.

    My thoughts: Individually I don't see any problems with the big changes, they may go farther than what I would have done, but taken within themselves they're fine. However taken as a whole I see them being a massive boost to 3DC by broad spectrum nerfing of most (all?) of the major counters to that build. I fear that MP will just deteriorate into a Wizard fest resulting in another lopsided meta. (Flashflood actually would be a stronger card for 3DC on most maps than WoS as well.)

    I'm happy to wait to see what additional changes are coming, but those are my thoughts based off the initial blog post.
  15. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Just because we post quickly doesn't mean we don't have THOUGHTS. I'd say your comments are as much reactions as ours without trying it out on the test server.

    I've tried some of the changes on the test server and I do think control casters will dominant with the current changes. Even with the nerfing of some staple things like Encumber (doesn't stack) and Trembling Staff (loses a Vulnerable to get the new Arcane Curse which causes you to discard an extra card or something) there are easy ways to overcome it and still remain strong. Flash Flood is insane for 3DC... it is like Wall of Stone but even BETTER.
  16. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    SPR and WoW both got nerfed... 3DC is feeling the heat just like everyone.
  17. The Run

    The Run Mushroom Warrior

    finally my bash+ harness stack build will be op :D
  18. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    This is interesting. Keep in mind more posts (with more changes!) are coming, so this is not the full picture just yet.

    As for the discussed card changes, I don't have a strong opinion about those yet. I do appreciate the fact many balance concerns are being addressed though, and certainly support the effort.
  19. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    Wow. I like where this is going. I'm pretty excited about most of the listed changes.

    Not sure about the decision with harnesses... while I do agree with the reasoning behind it, I have no doubt every warrior but my grandmother's will come stacked with tons of enchanted harnesses. Armor removal spells and penetrating attacks will become much, much more prevalent. Which is fine with me, but I fear could make for very awkward scenarios.

    If there's something I'm very positive about, it ought to be the changes to various blocks.

    EDIT: Quick Scuttle sounds very powerful. Free Move 2 + Cantrip means you can get a guaranteed attack from the back (negating blocks) in most instances. Scary.
  20. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    He just posted pretty much the "full picture" here: http://www.cardhunter.com/2014/07/upcoming-balance-changes-card-tweaks/

    I think most of the changes are good. The Harness change I predict will be reverted because it makes armor stacking Warriors insane in damage negation.

    Wonder if a Bashing + Crushing Warrior would be viable with the increased damage. Probably not that much, but would be fun to try out.

    It is a good start and I'm curious to see the actual item changes (I saw a few on the test server). One thing that is really strong and hasn't changed is Dodge and Mass Frenzy... both of those definitely need to be nerfed.

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