[Feedback] MP or SP / Growing & easing in new players

Why not restrict items on characters that are under a certain level? So they can't use items like 6+ levels above themselves. That way they can buy stuff the same as everyone, but can't use them in SP and can use them in MP.

 

Another thing a lot of new players have been wondering about is AI in MP just to test builds. Instead of having to create a custom map and load the AI characters, what about having the ability to just select a custom game and choose your opponent has "AI (Gary), AI (Amy), AI (Mom), AI (Cardotron)" from the "invite player" list or something and put them at top.

 

Renown definitely punishes MP players, I understand the thing about campaign progression but we already have slots and tokens...

 

Last call for suggestions on what I should include in my "newbie starting video" that I'll be recording in a few hours. So far this is what I have:

I'm working on an "advanced tips and tricks" focusing on multiplayer tactics and such or later on, but right now I'd like to answer most of the questions we've been seeing in the lobby. Any others?

 

Power would change a bit, yes. I don't think single player would become less enjoyable. The change would have smaller impact than some are making it out to have. And if the game becomes too easy in sp, it shouldn't be hard to make a couple mobs tougher here and there. Small price to pay in my opinion for a massive positive change to mp.

 

How shop prices are calculated, and how to decide what you can safely sell.
Chars vs Figures (I've been meaning to write something about this myself)
Exhaustion and when it expires (and shops reset)
Sharing items and chars between SP and MP
Chest rarities, club rewards, guaranteed drops
Brief mention of the scenario/board editor and give links to wiki and forums for more info

 

Maybe it's only a minority BECAUSE mp isn't actually an accessible, competitive game at the moment. And given how many players drop out of the campaign due to difficulty, I don't see how making things a little easier by removing renown is "unfair" to sp players. I think there would just be more players, hands down, who enjoy the game more...

 

I don't think removing the renown system or talking about whiteglow flails and what's past and beyond is helping the issue. Since buying a starter pack alr bypasses the renown system. And yes, I'd advocate a larger variety of starter packs with a tier price structure...but that's not the only way forward.

There are only 100+ c/unc lvl 17 18 items. And the end game is at those levels as well. Until the level cap is lifted, grinding a little for these is a pretty standard design across all games of any genre, iirc. Starter packs are essentially item packs + figures @ pizza costs. Improving starter packs = better item packs + figures @ (imo) higher pizza costs. Perhaps what mp players really want are either (a) better starter packs or (b) item packs for pizza costs. We are alr giving out free chests in the leagues tho... :S an there are chests shops as well...

Well, this whole thread is about mp players who want to get into mp straightaway and what should be done to facilitate while ensuring that the devs still get to eat. No point giving a mp player everything straight up for free only to have the game die out x months later due to finances. I think what you are asking for is a multiplayer starter package. The question here is: how much would you/average MP player pay for it ? and what would you like to see in such a package ?

 

Definitely not the case in competitive multiplayer games. (e.g. Magic, Starcraft, DotA)

There's a thread about multiplayer starter packages, already linked in this thread.

http://forums.cardhunter.com/thread...ers-to-participate-competitively-in-pvp.5229/

(Just in case we want to concentrate conversation there, or refer to it.)

 

Yh, my bad... I shouldn't have said 'all genres'. Then again in those examples, there's also grind. You grind for gold/roshan in dota, resources in SC etc... nuff said.

Then perhaps its not time for more words/posts but concrete action ? like an actual poll maybe ? and a big log in reminder prompt to vote perhaps... Unlike nerf/buffs, $ packages are difficult to reverse its effects.

 

I think there's a difference between in-match grind (roshan, resources, or, in Card Hunter, dealing damage to your enemies, getting victory points...) and the kind of pre-match grinding you need to do to just arrive at the match on an even footing.

 

So what I have been thinking is, you get introduced to MP at level 6 in campaign? Well, at that level you will have access to lots of tokenless low-level items but the only high-level items you have to customize your party with are the ones from the free starter pack/random MP loot/bought starter packs. I think it would be great if either Gary gave you a small selection of common level 10-18 items to deck out your party with (rather than using Steel Shield/Warrior's Axe/Bracelet of Elements/Onyx Healing Token as your only items forever!)
OR even better, as it has been mentioned, if you could sell a couple of MP parties for 50-100 GP each. These parties should include HWar/EWar/DPriest, HWar/HWizard/DWizard, and such to encourage people to try out different builds before they even realize they can do anything besides DWar/HPriest/EWizard. Maybe even have Gary offer their choice of one of those parties for free right away/ at some point in the campaign.

That was the biggest block for me, since 10 gold per character was huge for me way back when and I didn't even realize I could customize my party beyond the items.

Add onto that some pizza-enhanced versions with good rares like Shielding Token, Rageblood Dagger and Frosty Staff and you have a winner.

 

LoL has grind. You need to farm IP to get Runes that are only purchasable with IP (the in-game resource that is only achieved through playing). MtG is similar in that you have to "grind" packs unless you deal with a second hand market.

I don't mind the idea of MP Starter Packs that include figures as long as it isn't including Epics or Legendary items that are highly sought after. When you can buy items that everyone wants it trivializes the hunt which is what the game is primarily about.

However, Rare and lower quality items should be freely available for anyone who wants to spend money. I see no problem with even including Rares in a separate shop from Randimar and moving him to Epic and Legendary only -- especially as the number of items in the game grows and it becomes even more difficult to find specific gear.

Removing renown and simply making characters not able to use items that are 6+ levels above them would fix a lot of problems. It is easier to explain than "renown" as level requirements are an already established schema in RPGs. Not sure how it would change SP, but I can't imagine it wouldn't do much for the first play through as you can only find items that are +/- 3 levels from your current campaign.

 

Every FLGS that carries magic sells singles.
No one who plays in a competitive magic tournament had to grind to build their decklists—unless you want to include "grinding" work to make money to buy cards.

 

Singles are usually only for older cards. When a new expansion comes out it takes a while for singles to become available -- especially for hardcore players who go to the launch parties. But I get your point. :-P

I made the video on some basic tips and tricks and advanced things, although I feel I left a few things out and made it much longer than it needed to be as well as going into advanced topics too much towards the end. I might record a second take later but my throat is a little sore at the moment. If anyone is interested in checking it out it is here:



Starting with a completely new account probably wasn't the best way to do it since dealing with the beginning tutorial is annoying. Towards the end I deal with farming, neoncat's collection analyzer, and show the loot fairy -- all of which could probably have been cut for a new guide. Either way give me some feedback for my 2nd take and/or future videos I make.

EDIT: After reviewing the video I'm going to do it again and cut it down to 30 minutes. Lots of it is mindless filler of me completing levels instead of talking about tips and tricks.

 

Glad you do, because I think it's an important one. And because it's an important one, I'll say this - might vary from store to store, but at every single one I've been to that hasn't been the case. The day the set comes out, you can buy singles from the store.

 

You can always buy them on-line these days. In the first few weeks you may see some scarcity around specific format redefining rares but that usually just drives their price up.

I was arguing the case back during the beta in regards to what it takes for a CCG to form a competitive field, and card availability is key. Competitive Magic really took off when the vendor support kicked in, there's a very real reason why modern day magic tournaments include card vendors (so players can purchase cards they need for last minute changes in the meta).

In regards to Card Hunter MP we have multiple issues that impact card (or specifically item) availability for strictly MP players. This is what I've pulled together from the discussion so far:

1) Renown impacts the shop cost unless you've beaten the campaign. More or less forces a player to beat the campaign to get reasonable prices.
2) High level commons/uncommons aren't available from the stores, which means players are forced to grind for those items in the high level SP levels. Which along with #1 means a player more or less has to beat the campaign and then replay it for N days to obtain items.
3) Very limited availability to higher rarity items without grinding. Those of us who've stayed dedicated since launch can easily attest that there is no realistic method to obtain any specific legendary item. Epics are slightly better but we tend to measure the time needed to obtain them in months.
4) Gold access in MP. You need gold to be able to buy items from the stores, MP is reportedly not a great way to make gold.



Each of these is important to the end goal of creating a direct path for MP players. However I also strongly agree with Pengwin and others, the changes made shouldn't impact the SP campaign experience.

1) Could there be an alternative path to raising your renown for MP? Perhaps a pay option (this is primarily a convenience option)? Or maybe every time you get the epic chest you could bump renown up by 1? <edit> Apparently MP already raises your renown in some way, need more details on if this is a significant issue currently
2) Could be fixed by adding a new shop or adding these items to an existing shop.
3) This is still the biggest and trickiest issue to me. I personally think the best option is to allow more Randimar's resets. But there are other options, like crafting, as well. Preconstructed MP parties do allow access to specific items as well. This is a huge convenience feature to MP players, while I personally think it's needed it should probably be a pay option or be used as a way to drive players to MP (by making it a high level MP reward).
4) Add a gold reward in the MP track.

Just my thoughts as I try to track the discussion.

 

Multiplayer should increase renown already. I remember increasing my renown from 17 to 18 through playing multiplayer and increasing my renown on the test server from MP matches. Unless it has changed recently.

Having the ability to buy a re-roll for Randimar's would help alleviate a lot of problems while still keeping the game's economy intact and generating more revenue for Blue Manchu.

I see no reason not to add the level 17 and 18 (even 19?) common / uncommon items to the shops.

A "gold reward" to MP might work. Maybe a dedicated treasure drop each MP chest you play? I'd love it if the MP track was more rewarding in general. Make the first or third gold chest even better so casual players who only go for 1 or 3 wins a day can get decent equipment. I'd also smooth out the progression of the chests because right now there's a huge gap between the last gold chest and the Purple Chest of Disappointment.