Dwarven Control Wizards

Discussion in 'Deck Building' started by Scared Little Girl, Nov 8, 2013.

  1. Aldones

    Aldones Ogre

    Is is any surprise that someone would want to try something out that sounds like fun?
    Maybe it would be an interesting experiment to post another common build and just go off about how much you like it? Anyone else who likes it might also give it a try, and anyone looking for nothing else but to steal "super-secret OP build ideas" might feel inclined to try something new?
  2. I don't understand how copying a deck is fun, perhaps that's my mistake. Would it be fun if I published the work of another author with their permission when everyone knew I didn't write it? I don't think so, but that's just my opinion. As for the fun element, control decks aren't fun, that's kind of the point. But again we're entering purely subjective territory. If people find it fun to press the demonic feedback button over and over, playing a control deck instead would be an unparalleled adrenaline rush.
  3. ElShafto

    ElShafto Goblin Champion

    Winning is fun. Some people probably aren't winning enough and decide to try a deck that will allow them to win more. I can't fault anyone for that.
  4. I agree that some people aren't winning enough and I think Pilgrim Bailey did a good job of helping that particular player pool out, but he managed to do so without a set recipe. Winning is fun, of course it is, but it's a blanket term that can be used to excuse away a lot of things (drawspam, for example). If winning is fun and that's all there is to it, then there should be no way to report players for throwing a match.
  5. Oberon

    Oberon Hydra

    I don't even really play MP, but I for one see value in group discussion on deck building in Cardhunter. Deck building is a skill to develop, and like most learning activities it's more fun and effective to do so in a group. As this is in online game, where else but these forums would people go to learn more about the game?

    What some may see as copycats can also simply be seen as people trying to play the game in a new way, in this case learning to aggressively select items for negative traits. People are now learning a new strategy, which they will eventually apply to other things. Players will adapt soon enough, and I'm sure another thread will pop up explaining how to better defeat this type of deck. And if a strategy is degenerate it's precisely these types of discussions that help bring light to the problem.

    This is the game play and strategy forum after all; what's so inappropriate about discussing deck building strategies?
    hatchhermit, Flaxative and spacedust like this.
  6. Spheyr

    Spheyr Kobold

    Deck copying is the sign of a competitive MP/SP environment. In some games every competitive PvP team and PvE farmer uses copied decks. At some point homemade decks just won't cut it. I'm waiting for several meta team compositions to appear. Right now playing MP and hoping for success is like a shot in the dark. There's no guarantees that the deck I'm running is good enough for the rating I want to be in. At least with posted succesful decks my own flaved execution is my limiting factor. Not something arbitrary like my deck. Skill to win is the way to go. Having decks posted is doing no harm in that department.
    Flaxative and spacedust like this.
  7. Yeah, there's nothing wrong with taking ideas from others or even copying their decks. Free exchange of ideas is always good.

    For example this particular deck is not some complex set of cards that took me years to develop. All I had was a basic idea that I used, and the rest happened almost automatically. Anyone with the same basic idea would have, after some trial and error, build more or less the same deck. I guess the only card that doesn't really fit the basic idea is Short Perplexing Ray. Those happened by chance and turned out to be crucial.

    As for these new maps..

    Previous maps were great for control wizards because each map had a square from which all victory points were visible, making it easier to control them. Maps also had lots of open space. These new maps however change things quite a bit since the maps are smaller, provide more cover, and have tons of terrain that will slow you down.

    I've had only one match (against a human) so far which I managed to win but I cannot say it was easy. I fought in the most wizard-friendly map of the three, so I would imagine that had it been one of the other two maps, I would have been in some serious trouble, especially had it been that terrible corridor map.

    I will continue to test this deck and see how it works with these new terrain disadvantages. I am predicting lots of Nimble Strikes in the back and some serious rating drops but at least I don't have to fight Mom so often :)
    Flaxative likes this.
  8. Hutto

    Hutto Kobold

    I'll match your poor analogy with another poor analogy: Do you not ever sing someone else's songs, or do you only sing originals? Are you trying to say your deck is a reflection of your philosophy on life or something like that? My deck is just the uniform I wear to compete. Which is why I have all my slots filled, and wish I could have 3x as many to play around with. I guess you view it more like your signature walk-out music.

    Copying decks also helps you learn the game. The quickest and easiest way to figure out the nuances of a deck is to simply play it. This will show you where it is weak and where it is strong, and you'll learn how to play against it in the future.

    In most RPG games I really enjoy control elements. Disable and whittle them down while taking zero damage. It's fun because it takes the opponent out of their comfort zone, breaks up the 'normal' monotony of tank/damage/heal combat, usually requires practice to execute well, and provides lots of meaningful strategic choices. I can't really play something like the OP because I lack the necessary items despite playing quite a bit since a week or two after release...
    spacedust likes this.
  9. Avarice

    Avarice Goblin Champion

    On a somewhat amusing note, I've been running something similar to this since beta (minus the Perplexing Ray).

    And I just got accused of being a copycat by a sore loser.


    But yeah, there are only so many viable builds. Congrats on getting this one right.
  10. Jarmo

    Jarmo Snow Griffin

    Did you keep looking in Kyburz Market? Did you already get another Electroporter Novice or even several?

    I started looking the same time you did, it took 8 days for me for one to show up. It's in the low end of probability to take that long, for most players it should happen sooner. After 14 days, the chance of getting at least one is about 99.6 %. It doesn't matter if you miss a few days as the chance to get one is as big every day no matter whether there was one the previous day or not or even if there was one several days in a row. Statistically, after checking the store on 14 different days, only 1 out of 250 players haven't found one.
  11. piotras

    piotras Goblin Champion

    Hmm, statistics don't like me too :] I've been looking for over a week for that specifically and still no luck (nor have I dropped one since launch :p).
  12. I have looked in the shop every single day since you explained how the shops work, and not a single Electroporter Novice has appeared. I currently have a 2nd one but that's looted. Still looking for the 3rd.

    Based on my experience, and what others say here, I'm pretty sure the 96% probability you gave me was incorrect. If it was correct we would see more of them. Although the card is Uncommon, it might be a "rare uncommon" when it comes to shops, I don't know.

    EDIT: I knew this was going to happen. After I posted this reply, I went to Kyburz and surprise surprise, Electroporter Novice was there :) Still not sure if I believe that 96% but I now have 3 of them and don't really care what the percentages are anymore :)
  13. Jarmo

    Jarmo Snow Griffin

    A sample size of three players is so tiny that we can't say anything about the percentages based solely on that. Somehow I don't think we'll get a huge number of players reporting on this to achieve reliable harvested data.

    I've followed the item numbers in my Kyburz Market for the past nine days and they are like this:
    All	Uncommon
    162	46
    158	42
    150	34
    154	38
    154	38
    158	42
    165	49
    155	40
    151	36
    There's quite a bit of daily variance in the numbers. The average for Uncommon is 40.56 for this period. That gives a chance of 40.56/125 or 32.44 % of having one in the shop for a single day. I analysed the number of uncommon items of different levels for one day and they followed the distribution of the number of uncommon items of a certain level compared to the total number of them within the level bracket of the shop so well that I'm confident in saying that the item level does not influence the chance.

    Based on the numbers above the percentages for a 14-day period of getting at least one in the shop are these:
    1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12	13	14
    32,444 %	54,362 %	69,169 %	79,172 %	85,930 %	90,495 %	93,579 %	95,662 %	97,069 %	98,020 %	98,663 %	99,096 %	99,390 %	99,588 %
    The chance at one week is a little lower than I originally calculated, 93.6 % rather than 96%. I did not know about the daily variance then. The numbers above contain an error of unknown amount because nine data points is very very little to base reliable statistics on. The total observed range was 150 to 165, though, which stays in the general ballpark so the results should be reliable enough for this use. I'd say you'd need to be very unlucky indeed to not get one within two weeks.
  14. Jarmo

    Jarmo Snow Griffin

    ... and gratz for getting the three Electroporter Novices! May your build bring you continued satisfaction.
  15. So the new maps have been running a while, can Turin post the exact cards and strat for the highest rating so we can all "win and have fun". Thanks in advance.
  16. Nim

    Nim Mushroom Warrior

    I'm wondering if Sticky Slippers might be better for these decks. Wild Run is no Teleport/Hard to Pin, but it isn't an awful card and the item nets you another +1 Trait cards.

    Additionally Immovable is actually a useable trait for this deck when you get into WoW spats with other Wizards.
  17. BaldwinP

    BaldwinP Kobold

    My control wizards wear Red Jon's Boots and Mouse Boots, with the common thread being they require no token and have two copies of Flanking Move. Without Trembling Staff (or any other no-token staff which doesn't fill your deck with trash, if such exists), tokens are at a bit more of a premium.

    Wearing no-token boots with Immovable is certainly possible, but honestly I think Flanking Move is even more useful.

    For a similar reason, I have one of my wizards wearing a Green Hide Robe- Quick Run AND Winds of War? Perfect!- and would have both wear it if I had a second one. But then I'm playing a warrior as my 3rd guy rather than relying on Volcano and Wall of Fire to do the damage and be the threat to complement all that movement control, which makes Hover and Resistant Hide less necessary.
  18. Nim

    Nim Mushroom Warrior

    It's all about Immovable and cards like it being traits. Because Wizards don't really care about Squamish or Vulnerable they can get away wish running an honestly unfair amount of deck thinning. I don't even have all my ideal gear and mine have eleven or twelve traits each. On a thirty card deck that means you've trimmed fully one third of your deck.
    Flaxative likes this.
  19. BaldwinP

    BaldwinP Kobold

    Sure, but there's a balance between deck thinning and having good cards. If you have no-token boots, one trait and two cards you never want to see are not as good as boots with cards you do want to see.

    (Incidentally, it's not entirely correct to say wizards don't care about Squeamish. I've lost several games because my wizard couldn't finish off an opponent- including one where the enemy was down to 1 health so I couldn't even Winds of War him! It's certainly true that it's not a major drawback).
  20. Nim

    Nim Mushroom Warrior

    If you're going for boots without Tokens I agree that one of the 2x Flank move boots are the way to go.

    However Trembling Staff is the biggest revelation from this thread by far, my Triple Wizard team took a pretty steep climb in consistency after I switched to it. Freeing two Power Tokens means there's really no good reason not to use Token boots, since boots are where some of your least valuable cards tend to come from making sure you get good ones is paramount.

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