Let me say I'm honored to be on a forum with not just one, but multiple people who actually do the statistics to understand this kind of thing. I mean, willingly. I wonder if I should try motivating future statistics students of mine by assigning "Card Hunter" as course reading. The only thing I can add: At the moment, we have "human-dwarf-elf" and "fighter-cleric-mage." As for the future, player interest suggests new classes will be introduced more rapidly than races (but that's a guess).
That could be problematic if they make class-specific cads. Although I suppose we'll be able to trade our cards with others so maybe that won't matter too much after all. But from a single player perspective it could be an issue if we end up with a ton of classes that each has their own gear. Although I think people aren't being very imaginative with the class issue. With the way Card Hunter appears to be setup it's more an issue of gear than class. Take the fighter for example. Depending on gear set you could have a tanky shield-warrior, a duel-wielding berserker, or perhaps a nimble swashbuckler-esque character that moves around a lot. I don't think we need a lot of class distinctions in order to have variety. Edit: You've been around here longer than I have... but what about the Rogue class that is on the main page of this site? Is it just not confirmed? Or do we have 4 known classes? Edit 2: Sorry, I thought it was on the main page but apparently I bookmarked the "game info" page. Here's the link http://www.cardhunter.com/game-info/
I thought i first saw this card as being human since they are the more tactical of the races? I assume maybe all races get their own version then ? I do like the balance between racial diversity, and specialization.
Appreciate the reply, Jon. It seems like you are either undecided on what you want to do with those All Draw cards, or that you are keeping things close to the vest. Even at 1 All Draw Race, and 1 All Draw Class, it is still extremely strong. Not really overpowered, but something that will likely lead to "mandatory" 3x Same class/same race combinations. A good way to combat this is to promote diversity more in the card draw department. An Example: Fellowship of the Cards If you control 3 different race's, target character draws 2 cards. You do not lose your action. ( slightly less powerful since it digs deeper and can target your opponent for additional synergy. ) But it would allow for you not to be bottlenecked into 3x Class/Race. Its likely that all races and classes have a card like this. The problem I am seeing is there differences. If Priests have a card like this, isn't it just stronger then any other versions? Letting your opponents priest draw a card is not nearly as scary as a wizard or warrior, and not many people are going to be running more then 1 priest, thus limiting the overall cards your opponents will draw on average.
Why not? At this stage of development we have no reason to believe that running multiple priests (or even a full party of them) is any less viable than doing so with any of the other classes. In fact I could make a pretty solid argument for why running a full party of priests is more powerful than a full party of any other class.
Because to win any particular fight, you need to do damage, and priests do less damage the wizards and warriors. I would love to hear your solid argument for 3x priests though. Given what we know about DBC/Possible All Priest draw/Inspiration, I am likely to agree with you, though aside from that, there really isn't that strong of a reason.
Just because priests typically do less damage doesn't make them any less capable of killing an enemy. It might take them longer to get the job done but they'll heal any damage they take and with 3 characters that can heal themselves and each other you're much less likely to lose the battle. So statistically an all priest party is most likely going to net better results than an all mage or all warrior party. Turns per game might be 2 or even 3 times more than other parties but their win/loss ratio will be high. And that's just operating under the assumption that Card Hunter follows the usual convention of priests being healers that do low DPS. Depending on how you stack your deck you could possibly make one of your priests a Holy-Spell DPSer... focusing on maximizing holy damage while still having some healing options. Sure, the DPS likely to be lower than a similarly built Mage but the utility of having everyone in your party being able to cast healing spells should not be ignored.
Where is it confirmed that Mages and Warriors will do more damage than Priests? I was under the impression that damage potential was based more on build than class. Has it been pointed out somewhere that DPS Priests will fall short in the damage department?
Nowhere that I've seen. I agree that it will be build/gear based but I imagine there will be equipment restrictions and if that is the case priest equipment is likely to be low DPS but offer healing and other utility options. But that's all conjecture. We won't know until more information is released... probably not until some of us get into beta.
I can see some Divine weapons being low DPS for sure, but I can also see low DPS Arcane/Melee weapons (daggers with a lot of parry cards, wands with a lot of CC abilities, there's a tonne of potential examples) being in the game. Conversely there's definite potential for high DPS Priest equipment, but you're right. It's all conjecture at this point. It'll be a balancing act either way.
Although I think there should be some checks and balances for Priests though. A priest that is able to do high damage and heal would be overpowered.
Oh absolutely. Same with Warriors - if they can deal high damage and avoid/soak a lot of damage, that would be overpowered. A wizard who can dish out a lot of CC or status effects and still deal high damage would be overpowered. The balance will come from what's on the gear and what gear's in your deck. Well, hopefully.
14 minutes in. Based on that video: Warriors have 19 damaging attacks ( not including charges ). Priest has 11. Wizard has 18. Now that's not to say that there can't be melee priests, or spell damage priests, who knows, but if the average number of damaging effects they can wield is 11, unless they are extremely high end damaging abilities, you won't be winning that race. Also, based on the heals we know about, they are pretty pathetic. Most of the higher ones are self targeting, thus not able to really benefit from 3x priests. It would still be possible though. On Topic: Between DBC/All class draw/Inspiration/Martyrs blessing, you could draw upwards of 20 cards ( by attacking your own guy, preferably with low damaging ailities, No weapons? ) on a single character. Dunno about you, but I would gladly take 1 or 2 damage to draw a card to do 4+ damage or draw more cards :-p
I'm not sure that video is the best representation of possibilities. They clearly set up the demo along classic archetypes: melee/tank warrior, ranged DPS wizard, and healing/buffing priest. I think the classes actually look to be evenly matched based on how many slots there are. Priests only have two weapon slots, but they get those Divine items instead. Throw in a couple of Holy Smites or Fists of God and it would be very easy to have more attack cards. I go back to the holiday beatdown: If the guy who is building the game has trouble with a combo deck when he specifically set out to create one, I just can't agree that it will be so easy as your admitted "extreme" examples would have us believe. And draw 20 cards at a time? By attacking yourself? Sure, once. Gladly. But try to do it 20 times and you just killed your own guy.
Between martyrs blessing, inspiration, DBC, and any other all draw cards, its entirely possible to draw 20 cards at a time.
Yeah, wait until you hear about Altruism.... Anyway, Dwarven Battle Cry has seen very little playtesting so far. It may indeed be over-powered, we'll have to see. On the other hand, I think it's OK to have a few "must-have" cards in the suite, so long as they don't lead to "must-have" builds (e.g. only all-dwarf priest parties are competitive). Another thing to add is that we're going to have a chess clock in the ranked MP game. Card drawing combo decks will have to be careful about watching their time limit.
Hi Jon. Slightly off topic, though since it's come up, perhaps you could settle the question on whether Priests, with the right gear, will be capable of dishing out similar amounts of damage as the other classes (also equipped with DPS-oriented gear). Or will they be locked purely into a support role, unable to attain the damage output of the others? Cheers!
I would say that warriors have the highest damage output. That said, priests can certainly dish out damage and an all priest build is totally viable. When you are building a priest, you can focus on assist cards (healing, etc) or you can choose to take more damage oriented cards. So, some divine weapons have all melee attacks but most of them mix in some assist cards as well. If you want to build a pure high-damage output character, a priest isn't the best choice (unless you found some exceptional divine weapons that you want to use, of course). However, once you start mixing in buffs, priests can easily out-damage warriors on their own. That's one force that tends to push you towards building mixed parties. An all priest build is also probably quite vulnerable to power erosion as you lose characters, e.g., once you are down to one priest some of your cards are likely to be dead or reduced in utility because you don't have any allies left. It's probably true in general that you can trade resilience for power to some extent. As another example, Dwarven Battle Cry is very powerful when you have three dwarves alive, but pretty weak if you are down to one, whereas a simple melee attack is just as good regardless of your party state.
Highly disagree with this statement. Dwarven Battle Cry will not only cantrip itself ( draw you another card ), but will improve the quality of your future draws ( melee attacks for example ).
Yeah, but a one for one trade is pretty weak for a Gold card. Don't forget that you are paying for that Gold card with talents.
