[DISCUSSION] Cards (and items) to buff?

Discussion in 'Card Hunter General Chat' started by Stexe, Feb 23, 2014.

  1. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    So, we all know about my list of items to nerf (http://forums.cardhunter.com/threads/balance-balance-suggestion-list-january-2014.4967/) but I'd like to complement it with a list of cards to buff in the process.

    This is an open discussion on which cards you feel are underpowered, especially when compared to cards of similar value.

    When giving your opinion on cards that are underpowered, try to give an explanation on why you think it. The best way to do that is to compare it to cards that do similar things, but are rated similarly in-game.

    Remember, always try to compare the card's perceived in-game value (Quality and Rarity) with other cards with relatively similar functionality. While some may think a card is weak it may actually be fairly well balanced considering its Quality and Rarity. For example:
    • Mind Worm is considered by many to be underpowered, but it is a Bronze Rare compared to similar cards like Unholy Energy (Silver Rare) and Accelerated Thought (Gold Common). Therefore it is probably positioned well in-game and most likely does not need change.
    Note: I think most problems stem from overpowered cards than underpowered cards. Therefore, most of these buff changes are minor and to be considered with the nerf changes mentioned in the above thread.
  2. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Here's my first draft of cards to buff. This list focuses on Priests (who desperately need buffs) and Wizards (who have a few really useless cards in comparison to others).

    Suggested changes

    Soothing Darkness
    • Buff: Unsure. Possibly either add "Remove all current Encumber Effects" (defensive role) -or- increase to "Encumber 2" from "Encumber 1" (offensive role)?
    • Reason: Giving yourself (or an enemy) "Encumber 1" is simply not worth the trade off for "Heal 4 at the start of each round, duration 3." Either move it to an offensive role with "Encumber 2" (similar to Ice moves but with availability to Priests) or give it more defensive properties to compensate for its rarity and drawbacks.
    Improved Telekinesis and Telekinesis
    • Buff: Add "Fly" to the card
    • Reason: Gives it something distinctive compared to Winds of War. Allows users to move over a single square of difficult terrain or escape from an enemy's zone of control, both things Winds of War (similar rarity) lack
    Arcane Shell and Arcane Aura
    • Buff: Unsure. Possibly increase the bonus damage they give significantly but remove the "Keep" component -or- remove the Keep part from the armor but have it not count against hand size or add "Draw Card" when discarded?
    • Reason: Using a card slot and space in your hand for a few bonus points of damage is not an efficient trade. Traits give bonus damage without taking up valuable card slots and can be used to push debuffs off. Even if used for bonus damage, these cards give a very small amount in comparison to simply running a high damage attack in their place.
    Surging Shield Block
    • Buff: Unsure. Possibly a combination of nerfing Hard to Pin Down (HtPD) to "move 1 when block" (or "move 3 but must break Line of Sight to block") and changing Surging Shield Block (SSB) to "move 2 when block" would help balance it out.
    • Reason: HtPD is just better in all regards even though it is "lower value" (Silver Rare vs. Silver Uncommon). There is currently no reason to ever use SSB. By changing its functionality it might be a viable alternative to HtPD. They could either choose higher guaranteed mobility from SSB at slightly less chance (2 movement when not triggered, 2 movement when triggered at 4+) or the better movement but worse block with HtPD (3 when not triggered, 1 when triggered at 3+ -or- 3 when triggered but must break LoS).
    • Buff: Range 8
    • Reason: With both less range (6 vs. 8) and no defensive properties in comparison to Counterspell and with a higher rarity (Silver Rare vs. Silver Uncommon) it is just weaker in nearly every way. The only advantage is another spell can't remove it (due to Counterspell blocking it), which doesn't justify its lack of power.
    Twin Heal
    • Buff: Add "May Self Target" to the card
    • Reason: It is "Bronze Rare" compared to Light Heal's "Bronze Common" and only heals for a potential of 4 (if both targets are in range) compared to Light Heal's guaranteed heal 3. Also, Team Heal gives a potential for a heal 9 with unlimited range and is only "Silver Rare."
    illkkill likes this.
  3. tuknir

    tuknir #3 in Spring PvP Season

    Bad Luck
    - i know its a paper quality card, but a small buff would make it playable more
    Add: every time target rolls a 1 he gets 2 unholy dmg
  4. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Yeah, I'm really hesitant to suggest buffing paper quality cards, but that might work. Bad Luck I have seen used in some clever ways by casting it on your own people to cause Frenzy Aura to stick around longer.
    Of the paper quality cards I'd think Wavering Faith might be the biggest cry for help since it is a net -1 card.

    The other cards I'm looking at buffing are the Human-specific cards (they usually are not worth the card disadvantage). I'll probably do a short write up on them later.
  5. Baalorlord

    Baalorlord Kobold

    Some cards I consider undervalued

    Bash, Simple Bash and Lunging Bash - the slide back effect of these cards is largely negated by more accessible/reliable forms of movement control and/or step moves. Suggest improving their damage.

    Force Cone is laughably bad. I don't even know where to begin with this one.

    Cause Fumble is powerful, but a little too unrelaible for the token price one pays to bring it to battle. Consider changing to 4+?

    Shrug It Off is one of the least useful cards in the game at present, I would like to see it draw a card for the user - though this may swing it a bit too far in the other direction. Maybe draw a card only if an enemy card is not removed? To allow cycling when it is not useful.

    Bad Medicine is a strange card, and could do with some sort of boost. At present it's useful neither as a heal nor as an attack barring highly specific circumstances (compare to Misguided Heal which serves either role far more reliably)

    Acid Blast is weak for its cost - Horn Of Acid certainly does not justify a token compared to Charged Opal or Elemental Diadem. I think the armor-removing property of acid is slightly overvalued, given armor's relative weakness in competitive play.

    The three warrior traits Bruiser, Impaler, and Slicer all feel lackluster, especially compared to the far more useful traits found on wizard and priest skills.

    Stuck Arrow can be worse than the card it blocks. Perhaps duration 1 on the encumber? The same can be said of Hit The Deck

    Bad Luck feels so horrendously underwhelming, though I like the thinking behind it. If it were -2 to die rolls instead, it could be quite useful (though still a niche card)

    Battlefield Training and its advanced version are very underwhelming. While it can be better to have a card on a different character, this card is card disadvantage no matter how you look at it, and it gives information about your hand to your opponent to boot! The card transferred should not be revealed to your oppoenent at the very least, and I think these cards should be improved in other ways as well.

    Barge is far too weak for a silver card given how comparable it is to Telekinesis. Increasing the push distance to 3 could help but I think the card needs a more thorough rework.
    Stexe likes this.
  6. Questor

    Questor Ogre

    This belongs into Feedback and Suggestions.
  7. neoncat

    neoncat Feline Outline

    Hit The Deck has certain niche uses, but is usually paired with awful sub-par cards on items. If there ever exists a tokenless 3x HtD shield, I will pay good gp for it.
  8. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    Not going to happen with its current card values; that shield would be level 9 Rare. Making it "Bronze -" would drop the level to 6, though.
  9. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    No... this isn't Feedback or Suggestions, this is a discussion about the game. When I finalize the ideas I will post it there, but this is simply an open discussion about the game about which we feel is underpowered. That is different from actual feedback or suggestions to the developers.

    I'll go over the other posted suggestions later on. Bit busy right now but I'll definitely give my feedback and update the list later.
  10. If they could code soothing darkness to be dual purpose: heal allies, no encumber. OR if cast on enemy target, encumber 2, it would be great.
  11. PaladinGP

    PaladinGP #1 in Spring PvP Season

    re: Bad Luck - A slight buff would be nice, but too much (and -2 on die rolls is probably too much) would make Rapier Of Misfortune overpowered, and it's already a competitive choice.
  12. Jade303

    Jade303 Thaumaturge

    I agree with almost everything here.
    Stuck Arrow should have been a paper quality card, since compared to Missile Block it is clearly inferior because it is not worth the encumber. Hit The Deck seems pretty bad, but I think that is kind of the point, given certain items it appears on. It appears where it needs to be.
    Force Cone is fine. It may be less underwhelming at range 3 though; also it should Slide 1 the affected characters starting at the back row so that all of the enemies move and not just the ones at the back. I consider this a bug.
    Acid Blast is actually quite good, sure the 3 acid damage is low, but it is difficult and it discards all armor. It is superior to Hot Spot in those regards, although it can be argued that it is unnecessary compared to Control (Slide, Encumber, Discard) with raw damage from lava.
    An interesting note on Bash: if you can pin an opponent against a wall facing away from you, repeated Bashes don't cause them to turn around. It's very tricky though. Certainly a Bash Build is unviable at the moment. However, Bash in small quantities can sometimes allow you to maneuver allies/enemies into position.

    I would like to add Jump Back to this list. I feel like the Move Back 2 is worse than if it was Move Back 1. Maybe it's just me, but it seems like if you move back 2 far, than you end up in a bad spot where you have to move just to be in attack range again, because your line of sight has now changed which is bad for a wizard most times. On a Warrior, it is particularly bad unless you are lousy with Vicious Thrusts. Move Back 1 would allow Stabs. It might be good on a wizard sometimes; but I would like to see a new version (that's not Dodge!) that would allow you to Step Back without turning around.
  13. CT5

    CT5 Guild Leader

    I think a cool buff to Advanced/Battlefield Training would be to give them cantrip.
  14. Jade303

    Jade303 Thaumaturge

    I think a cool buff to Battlefield Training would be to have the effect discard an attack card to give to an ally, then draw a card. Cantrip is a neat idea; either way it still raises the question of when would it be worth playing it when you could just use the card yourself?
  15. tuknir

    tuknir #3 in Spring PvP Season

    Battlefield Training -

    In my Opinion, the way to make this playable would be to increase the range from 2 to 4 (maybe even 6) and make it that the given card isnt revealed to the opponent, so he would have to guess if it was a atk card, a block, something else
  16. Jade303

    Jade303 Thaumaturge

    OK you can't increase the range to 6 unless you are doing something with Advanced Battlefield Training. I think it would be cool if these cards caused you to draw cards from your deck, choose 1-2 and give them to allies (although you could give them traits in this way maybe?). In particular, Advanced Battlefield training should do so much more than just have better range.

    And this is why BT needs buff now.
  17. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Talonvore suggested making it a Cantrip. I think having it either be a Cantrip or have it "draw a card if a card was removed in this way" would be good -- but not both.
    Inkfingers likes this.

Share This Page