Defining brief terms for a strategy guide

Discussion in 'Card Hunter General Chat' started by Sir Knight, Feb 24, 2013.

  1. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    We have Gabbek's thread, and we have Pengw1n's thread, and there's long been the Hints and Tactics thread, but there's something else I've wanted to compile: a straight-out list of strategic information for each adventure and battle that you can implement in an instant.

    Consider all the threads with people complaining about range-2 enemies, or armored enemies, or so on. You can read a list of enemy cards one by one, and that is incredibly helpful (thank you, Pengw1n!), but once you know how to play all you need is a reminder "this map has range-2 enemies." Or consider specific things like Combustible: it's a drawback attached to some good cards, but it is (almost) completely harmless if the enemies don't use fire. (The only risk is that it might bump off a useful attachment on your character if you go over limit.) As soon as someone says "no fire here," you know you can build with those weapons.

    The problem is defining terms. I ask you: what is instantly useful to know? Here's my current list:

    Map has . . .
    Terrain hazards
    Few walls (Large Weapon-safe)
    Many walls (Cautious Sneak-safe)
    No maneuverability

    Enemies have these basic attack properties . . .
    Melee
    Projectiles
    Magic
    Preferred range (as one or more numbers)
    Speed (as a span, like 1 or 3-4)

    These specific attacks (probably put in parentheses after the basic attacks, above) . . .
    Back attacks
    Card discard
    Push abilities (Immovable-safe)
    Penetrating (not Armor-safe)
    Burning (not Combustible-safe)
    Encumber
    Stun
    Curse attachments
    Terrain attachments

    These defenses . . .
    Anti-melee (Armor, Blocks)
    Anti-magic (Armor, Blocks)
    General (Armor, Blocks)
    Amorphous Body (or other immunity cards)

    And these weaknesses (only the ones which matter to your planning) . . .
    Clumsy
    Combustible

    What else?

    Edits: I have added everyone's suggestions.
     
  2. mightymushroom

    mightymushroom Goblin Champion

    I would consider speed (edit: and preferred range): the mobility is a notable difference fighting Shuffling zombies or Teleporting wisps.

    This, together with terrain, will decide: is it a map where you are chasing or kiting, or is it a map where you pick a spot and hold it?
     
  3. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    How about in the "basic properties" adding a speed entry with a span? So, you might see "Speed 1" or "Speed 3-4."

    I suggest that because I don't want a list of literally everything for every single monster one-by-one. That's Pengw1n's domain, or the wiki's, or wherever. I'm trying to help a player plan for a battle with so few words that you can get it in a glance.
     
  4. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    Any way to easily decipher an encounter with set parameters for "power users" sounds worthwhile, would be good to have an agreed upon setup! Then again, can everything be quantified in that matter? I guess the aim is - "this is what is here, it's up to you as the user to use it" - rather than "do this: a guide"?

    Also, what information can be removed by the inclusion of screenshots - esp if it's an experienced user guide? I'd take that into consideration.
     
  5. mightymushroom

    mightymushroom Goblin Champion

    However you want to say it. :) Actually, the preferred range that I added with my edit is probably more important than speed, since it's really the range that makes Gary zip away from you. It's just something that came to mind: when planning boots and racial skill (which often has movement) it makes a difference depending on whether you expect to stand pat, step 1, or really chase, or kite. You had "no maneuverability" on the terrain list but I'm not sure projectiles/magic fully covers monster behavior.
     
  6. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    Oh, that's why I said "range-2 melee" and "high-range melee." If it makes more sense, that section could be edited to "Preferred range: X, Y, Z." So, for instance, a simple Troglodyte battle would say:

    Map:
    Terrain hazards

    Enemies, basic:
    Melee
    Preferred range: 2
    Speed: 3

    Defense:
    Armor

    As to a screenshot: that would render "few walls" and "many walls" redundant, but not necessarily "no maneuverability." However, all three terms are subjective until we get to places that have literally no safe space for Large Weapon (hello, Diamonds of the Kobolds). I'd keep all those terms: because they are set aside visually, the experienced user can just use which of the two alternatives (map or text description) is preferred.
     
  7. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    I tend to go on memory for these kinds of things but i do like the idea and i would happily contribute to it either here or on the wiki
     
  8. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    A wiki is a good place for templates. If there is to be an entry for every single battle, I'd hope to see a short list like this before (or even instead of) excruciating subjective analysis.
     
  9. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    If you decide on the Template for now ill take a minute or two just to fill it out after each map ^^
     
  10. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    Whoa, really? That would be awesome, but let's give this another day or so for people to weigh in. For instance, you'll see I edited to mention Immovable by name: there are a lot of specific-use cards like this which may be central to strategic decisions, beyond Combustible and all the others I'd already mentioned. I want to hear what matters to people.

    Just to plow ahead with an example, here's how I'd summarize The Wizard's Workshop:

    Workshop Level 1

    Map:
    Few walls

    Enemies, basic:
    Melee
    Preferred range: 1
    Speed: 2

    Defenses:
    Armor

    Weaknesses:
    Clumsy

    Workshop Level 2

    (Same as 1)

    Workshop Level 3

    Map:
    Few walls

    Enemies, basic:
    Melee (general, Armor discard)
    Magic (Burning)
    Preferred range: 1
    Speed: 2, 4

    Defenses:
    Armor

    Weaknesses:
    Clumsy

    Workshop Apex

    (Same as 3)

    . . . As you can see from Level 3 there, I'm not even bothering to report the difference between Ornithopters (by the way: that's currently misspelled in your thread, Pengw1n) and Golems. I was intending an aggregate for build purposes, so I just summarized all the melee alternatives, moved straight on to magic, listed both speeds together, and listed Armor and Clumsy even though those only apply to the Golem type.

    An experienced player can just glance at a screenshot and go "Oh, right, the Golems only do melee" and so on. Someone who actually WANTS to know how every speed and attack goes with every monster can look that up in a full monster list.
     
    Pengw1n likes this.
  11. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    Just a comment on that even tho I'm not sure if you just did this as a quick example. The first map is the corridor T-junction thing right? I would mention something about it being cramped both for the sake of big weapon and kiting,
     
  12. Pengw1n

    Pengw1n Moderately Informed Staff Member

    T-junction is Compass of Xorr, not Wizard's Workshop - i e the other golem encounter.

    Edit: Lol, I mean Lord Stafford!
     
  13. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    Yeah. Care to pick some complex adventure for me to try and summarize?
     
  14. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    I'm a dum dum sorry


    lord batfords manor is very mixed and interesting
     
  15. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    Okay, sure. Here you go. Now ask yourself: after reading the "summary" at the top, do you feel you know everything you need about the adventure? Myself, I don't know if I even need the individual battles in such detail: matters like which battles have dogs (thus back attacks and Step cards) interweave throughout the whole adventure, and I think an experienced gamer could just look at six screenshots to figure that out. Extra notes like the "(only boss)" thing could be helpful reminders in case the gamer lost track.

    Lord Batford's Manor

    Summary

    Map:
    Terrain hazards
    Many walls

    Enemies, basic:
    Melee (mostly Penetrating, some back attack)
    Projectile (Penetrating)
    Preferred range: 1-2, 4 (only boss), 7
    Speed: 3, Step cards

    Defenses:
    Block (general, anti-melee)
    No Armor

    Weaknesses:
    Clumsy

    Servants' Quarters

    Map:
    Completely walled

    Enemies, basic:
    Melee (general, Penetrating)
    Projectile (Penetrating)
    Preferred range: 1-2, 7
    Speed: 3

    Defenses:
    Block (general, anti-melee)

    Weaknesses:
    Clumsy

    Kitchen

    Map:
    Terrain hazards

    Enemies, basic:
    Melee (general, Penetrating, back attack)
    Preferred range: 1
    Speed: 3, Step cards

    Weaknesses:
    Clumsy

    Lower Halls

    Map:
    Many walls

    Enemies, basic:
    Melee (general, Penetrating)
    Preferred range: 1-2
    Speed: 3

    Defenses:
    Block (general, anti-melee)

    Weaknesses:
    Clumsy

    Ballroom

    Map:
    Many walls

    Enemies, basic:
    Melee
    Projectile (Penetrating)
    Preferred range: 7
    Speed: 3

    Parlor

    Enemies, basic:
    Melee (general, Penetrating, back attack)
    Preferred range: 1-2
    Speed: 3, Step cards

    Defenses:
    Block (general, anti-melee)

    Weaknesses:
    Clumsy

    Sanctuary

    Map:
    Terrain hazards
    Many walls

    Enemies, basic:
    Melee (general, Penetrating, back attack)
    Projectile (Penetrating)
    Preferred range: 1-2, 4
    Speed: 3, Step cards

    Defenses:
    Block (general, anti-melee)

    Weaknesses:
    Clumsy

    Edit: Yes, I think I personally would prefer that summary at the top plus 6 screenshots. What I learn from the summary: don't use Penetrating, get ready for fine maneuvers, and don't worry about bringing much armor. If you want a melee approach, your only defenses are Impenetrable Nimbus and Blocks (or lots of healing). You could also do a magic approach.
     
  16. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    Yep summary + 6 screenshots would probably give about as much possibly even more in some cases. Also just pointing that out some of the mobs have armor so no armor is slightly incorrect.
     
  17. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    Which ones have armor? I never triggered any.
     
  18. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    Its either those guys with axe and shield or the dog i just remember triggering that blue armor 3 card in that adventure and i did it earlier today so i hope my memory isn't that bad.
     
  19. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    Solid Mail? If so, can you double-check which enemy gets it? Pengw1n reports that neither the Man at Arms nor the Mercenary has armor, and I personally would have expected an enemy "with a shield" to have nastier Blocks (in this case, Duck). And the dog isn't an "armored dog," so, again, I'm unsure.
     
  20. Wozarg

    Wozarg Thaumaturge

    I will double check, as i run many quick adventures in succession there is a small but existing chance i got them mixed up with something else.
     

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