Balance Changes: Round Three

If that was the case then we would all be playing fixed decks 100% of the time.
The whole point of letting us choose our race, characters and gear is for the sake of variety not to let us homogenize everything down into one 3x Dwarf Warrior/Wizard build to rule them all :/

 

I am well aware there are structured games like this and I would argue many people find them boring. Having imbalance in a game allows for metagames to evolve. Builds that are dominant get overtaken by ones built to beat them. When those become popular another build comes along to beat that. Evolving strategies makes game fun. Having a perfectly balanced game like chess or go boils down to making the best lines of play, a tic-tac-toe game with a ton of permutations and hasn't been fully figured out yet but one that ultimately has one best way to play.

 

OK so there are only a few small, burning issues left for me...

1- Freeze. With the new encumber rules and lack of Step 3 and 4 attacks, this card falls dead next to Frost Jolt, which is half the cost. Suggestion: Do something. Do anything.

2- Scuttle. While I like Leap, I am going to sorely miss Ulrin's Scuttling Socks (Are they going to become Ulrin's Leaping Loafers?), and items with Scuttle in general like Lizard Hide Boots. Well, more importantly, are Lizardmen and Trogs going to start Leaping instead of Scuttling? That's a scary thought. Mostly strange.

3- Acrobatic Flip/Disorienting Block. How about Whirling Block or some other name? Also, I would like to see Acrobatic Flip again, it would be a good card if the cost was lower. The flavor text and picture... classic.
EDIT- Heck, keep the name the same, and only Move 1 the attacker if it blocks Melee. You can backflip over a Frost Jolt you know.

4- Force Cannon is still better than Force Blast for no distinct reason. Not a big issue I suppose.
5- Same with Skillful Strike/Feinting Strike.
6- Spiked Mail needs some love. Doesn't need to be Penetrating, but it's no Reliable Mail.
7- Charge could use a boost too.

8-Lateral Thinking is still a terrible card. Just terrible. Forward/Inspirational Thinking underperform as well.

9-Mystical Drakehide/Wyrmhide are still subpar cards.

I just have to stop here and say, that a lot of little things that I have thought could use a nudge have already been given some love and they are great. So thank you for taking the time to improve the little things, and thanks for reading.

 

Trogs still scuttle. The replacement is happening only for player items.

 

Force Blast works on multiple targets and through smoke, which can be a real advantage even if it has less slide and damage.

I think Flax may love hating it too much to push for a change. I find it interesting that SPR was changed to a Lateral Thinking variant for use as an attack card.

 

I think you're thinking of Force Cone not Force Blast.

 

Having just gotten a Superb Trickery the change to elven trickery now affects me. The new version looks awesome with free move, and almost all but makes up for the attack hosing. Maybe we'll see a revert, or at least a slight buff to two oldest attacks .

 

D'OH! You're right. And I see your point about the two.

 

Yeah, Freeze could use some love now. Maybe Duration 3 or increased damage?

I suggested to Jon changing it to "Move attacker 1 if only blocks melee" but he decided to go with Disorienting. No real strong opinion for or against it though (I was mainly just concerned about the disconnect from the name). Either way, I think it is probably one of the strongest blocks in the game now since it is effectively a SSB but better (move enemy and move yourself = 2 move).

Yeah, Force Cannon should probably be changed back to a Push 3 -- right now with the lower mobility a Push 4 is INSANE and basically makes using Elves a requirement to keep up.

Most of my other thoughts can be found in my balance analysis thread, but I'd have to say I'm not sure about saying Mystical Drakehide/Wyrmhide are subpar. I think the only reason they are not used is because Resistant Hide is so amazingly strong for no real reason. I've been strongly pushing for a nerf to Res Hide for a long, long time. It's power is basically an Emerald quality card in that it can completely shut down enemy builds with little to no counter play.

Yeah, I was surprised they went so far as to make it only the oldest. Although if it became the two oldest they would have to remove Free Move to actually make it balanced (Free Move, discarding 2 which be probably better than the old version on average).

Having seen the new SPR on the test server I'm not that impressed with it. I'd much prefer normal PR due to the insane range. By the time the enemy Warrior is within a space from you you're in trouble.

The SPR 2.0 (discard 2, draw 1) was a lot more interesting (both offensive, defensive, and utility uses) but could have used a range boost.

 

new SPR looks effective I'd say, even got a range boost to 4, + move 1 means you can even get out of range of a dash if used at max range.

I'll also echo the sentiments of others I too feel elven trickery got unnecessarily shafted, yeah its got free move now but its original purpose has been watered down to the point almost all the other elf skills look desirable in comparison now. It was being abused on test serv apparently by ppl using 3 superb trickery, and those using in conjuction with the previously buffed cause fumble spam, conjecture here but I'd wager there's maybe only 2 or 3 ppl on the regular server, if any, who actually own 3 superb trickery, and since the rest only give you 1 total per character its hardly a dependable strategy, + I think it was a fair tradeoff originally as you're sacrificing a fair chunk of hp to be able to run one.

I just hope they look at strengthening it back to its original purpose, or at least discard 2 attacks, and keep to include all atk not just melee so its not a dead card vs. wiz. Also in conjuction I'd rollback the free move as zone of control was one of the best ways to protect against it.


Edit : Just saw comment regarding mystical drakehide, I'd agree this is a subpar as well..
It has a really unique reflecting effect, but the high roll makes it unlikely to work most of the time, compare this to say resistant hide and you see why it hasn't found much popularity in mp.

 

You have to balance around what people might potentially have, not what people currently do have. Richard Garfield balanced the original sets of Magic: The Gathering around the idea that people would only ever get a Black Lotus or two due to their rarity so he made it extremely powerful. He never thought people would buy boxes and boxes to get the best stuff and be able to do insane combos.

The simple fact is that Elves were insanely strong -- they were nearly competitively viable already. With NS and other step attacks being lowered heavily, Dwarves are going to be a lot slower, which makes Elves just that much better. Elven Trickery was potentially insane card advantage (12+ in theory). It might have been better balanced as "target 1 Adjacent enemy loses all melee attack cards (or loses 2 oldest)," but I think the current "3 Free Move; Discard Oldest" is still decent especially considering that most people hold onto their biggest attacks to set up a big smash. The main problem is that Elven Trickery is found on items with meh other abilities. The card itself is good, but where you get the card isn't. I still think it will see play, but obviously Elven Maneuvers is going to be dominant until that gets (rightfully) nerfed as well.

 

This, exactly. Because eventually, there will be players with 3 of the legendary racials that give you 2 Elven Trickery, specially now with the Randimar's change and the Daily Deal. I ran a melee team with 3 elves (2 war 1 priest) in the test server, for a total of 6 ET. And I can ensure you that it was INSANE. Sometimes I just won without letting my opponent hit a single attack because they got discarded with ET, creating great card advantage. It's very problematic in quantities, and it also feels very cheap, given that it's unblockable. You can still create card advantage after the nerf, so it's not like it has become unplayable.

 

I'd like to point out two things: One, if you SPR an elf at 4 range and then move back 1 square, YOU ARE still in range of them Dashing up to you. Which is fine.

The other thing is, Force Cannon is Slide Back 4 not Push 4. So it only works best if there is room for the target to go back in a straight line. Which can be countered with good positioning.

I *think* I understand the reasons for keeping Resistant Hide the way it is currently; that being said, it should really only prevent all Fire damage OR Electric damage, not both. Probably Fire damage (firehide robes, anyone?).

 

mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm Black Lotus... too bad I got into MtG 1 edition too late...

 

Better than getting a pack and accidentally putting it in the washer with your clothes... that's what my cousin did. He wasn't sure if he had a Black Lotus, but he definitely lost a decent number of alpha / beta cards that way.

 

Ok yes I understand BM is doing some balance changes based not on "what is" and rather "what could be" in an attempt to future-proof. I take back my statement about no one owning 3 superb trickery yet.

Just a minor point of contention here. I wouldn't use "insanely strong" to describe elves unless they were already "competitively viable", possibly top-tier in fact. Can't see that description applies here as we all know the master race of dwarves has been at the summit for awhile. Also like to note that step attack nerfs affect all melee classes dwarf human and elf while trickery is a racial specific to the lowest hp. Yes dwarfs will suffer a bit from mobility now but they still have a fat chunk of hp to work with and toughness hasn't gone anywhere. Just a bit off that the only race who suffered nerfs specifically to their innate abilities is one who has never really dominated the boards to begin with.

So I still think trickery could use a buff from where it is currently post-balance.

 

This may be reaching a bit, but if trickery could discard up to 'n' (pick a number) attack cards it might help it a bit. It still wouldn't fully disarm multiple mobs or characters, but might give a reasonable shot at disarming a single target.

 

I would be fine with Elven Trickery being back to "Discard all melee attacks" if it required you to be standing next to the enemy at the start of the move, like Escaping Run.
As it is, the elves dash into your face and cost you several cards from your hand. At least if the elf had to dash up to you first or if you were attacking them first it wouldn't be so strong.

 

I've seen Elves do very well -- and before the nerf to Elven Trickery and after the nerf to Nimble Strike basically everyone was using them on the test server. They were nearly competitively viable before with NS not nerfed... they didn't see much play because they were slightly riskier, but I have seen a few 1 Dwarf Warrior + 1 Elf Warrior teams do very well at 1700+.