A change is coming...

Discussion in 'Guilds' started by Farbs, Dec 18, 2018.

?

I'm planning to change guild scoring in a bid to make it a friendlier contest. When should it apply?

Poll closed Dec 19, 2018.
  1. Now

    11 vote(s)
    64.7%
  2. At the start of next season

    6 vote(s)
    35.3%
  1. Farbs

    Farbs Blue Manchu Staff Member

    Hi all.

    I'm planning a change to the guild scoring system which I'm hoping will sort out the drama and calm people down a bit. Should I apply this change (which I won't detail here) now, part way through a season, or should I wait until the next one kicks off? On the one hand, it seems a little harsh to change a season in motion. On the other hand, a lot of people are about to take time off, and it'd be nice to sort this out before they do.

    Please vote, and share any comments you may have. The poll closes in 24 hours.

    Thanks!
     
    Janet, gurel2 and Gingrich Yurr like this.
  2. Gingrich Yurr

    Gingrich Yurr Thaumaturge

    What's the rationale for not detailing it here? I voted now since the prize structure is flattened this season, so the stakes are lower if it doesn't turn out well.
     
    Testlum and Farbs like this.
  3. Farbs

    Farbs Blue Manchu Staff Member

    Thanks for voting, and for chatting about it.

    I haven't detailed the change because I didn't want to derail the thread. I want to know when I should change the scoring system, and I don't want an all out public debate about what that change might be.
     
    Sir Veza, Flaxative and Gingrich Yurr like this.
  4. GriffTheThief

    GriffTheThief Orc Soldier

    @Farbs,

    What I fail to understand is: why aren't you really willing to disclose the upcoming changes? Of course they will derail the thread since, to the best of my knowledge, the changes you'll do were never spoken of before. The way you posted, I believe such changes aren't being proposed to the community; they're being implemented, we like them or not. Period.

    In any case, the changes to guild pointing system should happen at beggining of next season, so we can get used to the new rules. Don't change the rules in the mid-season.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2018
    Testlum likes this.
  5. battlezoby

    battlezoby Kobold

    I really enjoy CH, and I am concerned about Guilds only because I want Guilds to
    encourage people to play, because a strong player base helps to keep the game alive. (*)

    That said, I have some strong opinions on Guilds and prizes /rewards nonetheless...

    It appears that the current way in which Guilds earn Pizza every month
    has had the effect of causing a relatively small number of players to
    cooperate with each other in order to obtain most or all of the pizza for
    themselves and their alts every month. I believe that:

    1) there are better ways in which to encourage a much greater number of
    people to be motivated to keep playing, play more, or start playing, and

    2) creating "in game rewards" in any game inherently seems to have a stronger
    than desired effect of causing people to no longer want to play if those
    rewards are later taken away.​

    Although I suspect there are a small number of actual biological players (vs. alts)
    receiving the pizza, those players probably play an awful lot of Ranked Matches and
    frequently contribute to World Chat and Forums, and help keep the game alive.

    Therefore, it's my strong opinions that:

    a) some new incentives for Guild (or even non-guild) play should be created, so that those
    incentives motivate a greater number of people to play CH (or play more CH than they
    currently do), but nonetheless,

    b) You shouldn't mess with the current guild prizes - even if very few people (as
    to opposed their many alts) receive them, those few people still have a large
    presence, play a large number of Ranked games, and help keep CH alive.​

    Secondly, I don't know the extent to which the person or people responsible for
    keeping CH alive on the publisher/dev-end are concerned with revenue...

    But if they are concerned with revenue, I would suggest maybe that some new rewards (or
    reward distribution methods) be created where only accounts that have spent actual real-life
    money on the game since the last time they received special new rewards could be eligible
    for such additional such rewards.

    Trying to keep track of who is a natural person and who is an "alt" of a player
    with many of them may be very difficult. So it's hard to "spread the prizes
    around"...

    But if some rewards only go to accounts that have spent money 'recently',
    it's both a good way to reward such spending, and also, since a person
    with many many alts isn't likely to spend money on all of them, it would
    be more likely that the prizes would spread around "more evenly", rather
    than repeatedly going to the same number of small people.

    Specifically with respect to Pizza prizes, (beyond the current guild awards,
    which I said suggested shouldn't be changed as per "b" above) it might be a
    good idea if such prizes were non-transferable and were specifically implemented
    in such a way that having recently received such a reward would make it increasingly
    harder to do so again in the future.

    As a last comment about Pizza here, since Pizza is a replacement for
    in-game spending of real cash, it might be a good idea if any new
    prize were NOT pizza. Instead perhaps they could be some really nice cosmetic
    perks that would not help the winners to win more and more often, thus not potentially creating a new set of "elite" players or further reinforcing the current set of such players.

    -----

    * - Neither I nor, to the best of my knowledge, any of my "real life friends" or any
    of our alts are in any Guild(s). So I'd like to think that this adds some credibility
    to what I wrote up top about my concern for keeping the game alive, rather than
    getting prizes for my and my friends. In other words, hopefully these comments
    can be viewed as being "more objective" than ones from someone who is in a Guild
    and worried about their own standing(s) or rewards.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  6. Nero313

    Nero313 Mushroom Warrior

    I say Zero pizza for everyone... I mean, if that is what they are fighting over... take it away. It's harsh, so... that's kinda the style for punishment here. Oh and a one month suspension for anyone that complains. Break the spirit... An even better idea is to suspend them for a percentage of time played. So a 10 percent suspension for a player that has played for a year would be 37 days, 2 year player 73 days. Super harsh, just an idea that you guys would probably like.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2018
  7. Nero313

    Nero313 Mushroom Warrior

    I received a private message last night regarding my post. This player which I will refer to as (x), this massage was written as a reply to this post. I won't post the message; largely because after reading it I left the conversation. I found the player in-game and explained to post it here. This person made some points they thought was so convincing that it could destroy the game... I disagree and a dialogue is needed if things are so toxic. I encourage this player to post the reply; speak up. I have no power to change anything (x) so why spend your time convincing me of something I could never change. I am a new player not a dev.

    My posts are my thoughts; they are not right or wrong. That are based on the short experience that I've had on Card Hunter. I have noticed that overly harsh punishments are arbitrarily handed out based on little to no evidence. This is the foundation of my thought; if **** will get you banned (banning is a perma action, suspensions are temp), then why would that not apply to purposely creating a toxic environment. It seems to me that following the guide lines I've been apart of; creating a toxic environment ,purposely, would be grounds for actions that I have described in my previous post.

    They are simply feedback.
     
  8. Nero313

    Nero313 Mushroom Warrior

    I was once again contacted by another player that will be called (y) asking for the name and information in the message I received last night. I did not give any information to (y) stating that it is (x)'s place to speak for his/herself. I am not in a guild and I will not fan flames on personal issues that I have no business in. I instructed (y) that perhaps asking the player they are concerned with since I am not involved. It simply isn't my issue. I have posted these to highlight an underlying issue.... TALK TO EACH OTHER!!!!! Express your views while being respectful... I assure you the outcome is better than allowing whatever toxicity to continue. Or you know whatever...
     
  9. Temaukel

    Temaukel War Monkey

    I guess that's the kind of stuff that previous system generated. I hope this changes will encourage the fair play. I've experienced similar chats, with people doing weird things like talking bad about others or asking me to report another one (more than once). All those things I consider toxic behavoirs as well.
    I like the direction of the changes. Taking out pizza? I think that would be too much.
    Also, I like how this new way includes new players making them not dead weight for guilds.
    Lets make Cardhuntrian community kind again! XD
     
    Sir Veza and Scarponi like this.
  10. Janet

    Janet Guild Leader

    The new scoring system has taken some pressure (and edge) of the game, I think this will improve game for a larger base of players, but I think it also takes a bit of the guild wars system out of the game and encourages players to quit. In doing so it perhaps goes a little too far in opposite direction. Why not give 1 point per match but 2 for blitz and -1 for guild vs guild battles?
     
    GriffTheThief likes this.
  11. GriffTheThief

    GriffTheThief Orc Soldier

    Janet (or Gnizla),

    I admit I didn't understand your "giving -1 point for guild vs guild" idea. Could you elaborate? Does that mean giving -1 point if the match occurs between 2 players belonging to the same Guild?
    In the previous scoring system, matches between players affiliated to the same guild awarded no guild points for either player. The new rules didn't touch this, what I pretty much agree to, because we can't choose whom we'll match against.
     
    Last edited: Jan 31, 2019
  12. Astroboy123

    Astroboy123 Kobold

    i think what is meant it that there should still be a -1 penalty if you lose a match against another guild player rather than no point loss at all while keeping the 0 point loss if you lose to a non-guild player. It is a lot more manageable than the old system where you could lose up to 12 points depending on the ELO of the guild in the season and solves slightly the problem where people just don't bother competing when things look bad since there is no penalty at all
     
    ParodyKnaveBob and GriffTheThief like this.
  13. GriffTheThief

    GriffTheThief Orc Soldier

    Oh, right! Thanks for the clarification, @Astroboy123
    Then I must say I agree to Janet (and to you too)
     

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