Upcoming Balance Changes (8 Nov 2013)

I agree with you again, it's a very minor gripe in comparison. had just hoped they slip this one in, not because it's urgent but because it's a very simple and small change and build updates aren't that frequent. I won't bring this up again since this is a thread about the draw changes - just thought it's a good opportunity if a new update is coming anyway.

 

I've been waiting for someone to point out that altruism itself hasn't actually been touched by this list of changes. I'm hoping that this means that everyone is actually happy with that card and thinks it's in a nice place? Somehow I had expected it to get lumped in with the rest of the offenders, but I'd like to think it can be just fine under the right conditions. Do you guys think that this change will create those conditions?
Some reasonable points were made even recently in this thread. As an example, does it bug you that repeatedly healing a fully healed character allows card cycling?

 

Visual representation.

 

Comparing that to Smoky Talisman seems like a no-brainer. Next upgrade (sticking with common items) would be, what, Orla's Tear, but at least that costs a token. Should related common items like the talisman maybe get addressed as well? With this charm getting painful enough, especially when you're still actually level 6, the logical next step would be equipping stuff that carries a lot of inspiration, since it gives almost the exact same effect now but none of the downsides. Seriously, the only reason I considered these demonic cards before was that they gave me the impression that I was trading off HP for some extra advantage. Now it looks like the holy card groupings on some equivalent level items are just flat out better. But all our perception of card utility may be different, here.

 

I like the changes - looking forward to having a non-draw deck that has a reasonable chance of winning. I don't think the changes to Dwarven Battle Cry are enough though. Because the only drawback is if you are facing other dwarves MP parties are still going to need to be mostly dwarves. Still much too strong compared to the other races.

 

Can we use this same argument for elvish insight, then? It also doesn't work well against the same race, and is blockable, isn't it? I hear this confuses people anyway, so if elves end up needing some love at some point you could kill a couple small birds with one stone.

 

Making elvish insight unblockable would be a huge nerf (and insight doesn't need a nerf). It's one of the few things that can keep hard to pin down in check. Dwarven battlecry being unblockable makes a lot of sense because drawing a card is a good thing for your opponent. Insight revealing cards is a bad thing for your opponent, so blocking it isn't a completely ridiculous thing. I've been happy to block an insight before, and I've been happy to draw out hard to pin downs with insight before. Elves really do need love, but this suggestion is hate .

 

Elvish Insight being unblockable would be a downside not a bonus.

 

Is there any ETA on deployment to the live server(s)? Apologies if this has been addressed previously.

 

Like others mentioned before, the changes for Brain Burn are a bit harsh, its already a bad option for MP.

 

Elvish insight being unblockable is a buff to the card, not the other way around. Knowing which card your opponemt has is a very strong advantage. I don't even care if I didn't flush his block card. The fact that I know he has a block cards and precisely what it is can turns the tide of battle for me.

 

Why not remove the "Trait" from Brain Burn and keep it 2 damage? That way you can't use it for cycling but it is still a negative item. Seems like 3 damage per spell isn't worth the card.

I hope for the month after this patch or something we can re-sell items with Unholy Power / Demonic Power, Demonic Feedback, and such for full price. That'd be adequate compensation for the nerfs since we could just buy other items if we feel they are too weak now.

 

Looks like it won't affect me much, I won't be using anything with these in the lesser form anyway

 

Makes sense.

An alternative, though I don't think you want to go down this road AT ALL, is to have it be "2 damage in single-player, 3 damage in multiplayer." It would keep the multiplayer balance benefits which prompted "3 damage" in the first place, but also keep its original balance for all situations in single-player which would otherwise have been broken.

I don't think it's a healthy precedent to set, I'm just tossing it out there.

 

You mention making Demonic Pain harsher, but changing it to Demonic Revenge seems harsh. I fail to see how this card is any sort of transgressor. The Items it's on suck besides Demonic Blade and Incense Of The Caged Demon, and even those aren't great. I like the latter for an aggressive SP build (and have just started using it as such), but making Demonic Pain from an average card cycler to potentially vicious just seems pointless. The other 5 items Demonic Pain is on are just terrible and outclassed in a multitude of ways by a host of other items.

Edit: Edited once I re-read Jon's post. My points still stand though

 

From someone that has played over 1,000 multiplayer games and got to 1,600 (with a draw deck lol):

I really like these changes.

I am really glad that "drawback" cards are a bit more punishing. Indeed right now a drawback card is way better than almost any paper quality card and even a lot of bronze cards. People seem to think that this takes creativity away from building decks. But the truth is that what kills creativity are a lack of real options and when something is clearly superior people will do it instead. For example, trembling staff is clearly the best tokenless staff option on wizards. More and more people are beginning to realize that. If this item didn't exist then instead there would be some real choices between other token free ones.

I am still concerned about the power of "rambo" warrior decks. By that I mean where round 2 they buff up and send in a warrior that has X cards. Right now X might be 12 cards and after this nerf I question if it will still be quite high... like 9-10. Why? Because people are just going to go to the next best option which is inspiring presence, inspiration especially stacked with altruism. How much worse are these really than what currently exists? I guess we'll see but I think this might be a problem deck still to some extent.

I haven't played the last week but I'll definitely come back to try multiplayer again once this goes live. I expect good things!

 

The unintended consequence of these changes will be to punish low hp, whether it's low levels, or elves, since the damage doesn't scale to level as a % of hp. If you like playing dwarves but not playing priests it's a win for sure. Fortunately, that's what I've been doing already.

Also: It seems to me like a fix for MP at the expense of SP.

 

I agree for the most part. I expect it to happen more in the future.