I can verify turinturamba's infinite deck. He killed my entire party on turn one with it. All that is needed is a leadership and line of sight between his characters.
One crazy/annoying thing was that as he was cycling through his deck, looking for resistant hide for his wizard, the clock ran on me every time his card animations ran. By the time he got to his kill condition, I was 5 min down on the clock. He could have beaten me by just running through card animations, which would have been extra demoralizing, lol.
One thing that occurred to me in another game (sorry Iomi) is that you don't really need the wizard. You can go with three clerics for a lot more consistency, draw your entire deck and cycle the move cards from boots to slowly move across the map killing everyone.
I'm tempted to resign anytime I see my opponent play it (and only own one copy myself). Maybe if it was just one card per char or just one char?
I think it's a fine mid range card that has the ability to become abusive in combination with card draw effects. The fact that you can leadership any number of cards is staggering, giving it a pretty impressive upwards power curve based on hand size. I think you may want to experiment with capping the quantity of cards you can cycle, I think 2 cards per character is more than enough power on a single card. This would allow the card to still be as useful as it currently is in many game-state where hand size is often 3-4 cards, while bringing the outlying power in check for builds with massive card draw.
Hi all, just trying this out and figured I'd share my build. Human Warrior Level 18 Human Warrior Spear Of Dancing Bejeweled Shortsword Piercing Pick Dependable Mail Steel Shield Shifty Skin Hat Kerrick's Steel Boots Untrained Command Advanced Impaling 2 x Lunging Thrust 1 x Powerful Bludgeon 1 x Perforating Strike 1 x Thick Hide Armor 2 x Mail 1 x Block 4 x Penetrating Cut 1 x Flimsy Block 1 x Rusty Armor 3 x Reliable Mail 2 x Shuffle, Team! 2 x Penetrating Stab 2 x Puncturing Stab 3 x Powerful Hack 2 x Impaler 1 x Shuffle 2 x Vicious Thrust 1 x Surging Shield Block 1 x Walk 2 x Acrobatic Flip 1 x Shield Block Dwarf Wizard Level 10 Dwarf Wizard Chillwood Staff Frosty Staff Wand Of Rapid Air Wand Of Rapid Air Brainfire Orb Burning Bangle Gray Robe Nimble Chain Boots Solid Rock Apprentice Sparking 2 x Force Blast 1 x Immovable 2 x Hot Spot 1 x Bungled Bolt 1 x Toughness 1 x Reliable Hide Armor 1 x Mail 2 x Cautious Sneak 3 x Frost Jolt 1 x Parry 2 x Reflexive Teleport 1 x Acid Blast 1 x Ember Spray 2 x Cone Of Cold 1 x Spark 2 x Cold Snap 1 x Wall Of Fire 2 x Mighty Spark 2 x Chilling Rime 1 x Devastating Spark 1 x Lunging Thrust 2 x Whirlwind Enemies 2 x Perplexing Ray 1 x Spark Generator Human Priest Level 10 Human Priest Lifesuck Spear True Strike Spear Mail Of The Martyr Dueler's Buckler Kerrick's Steel Boots Silver Healing Ring Shuddering Relic St. Bethan's Charm Superb Tactics Superb Devotion 1 x Limited Heal 3 x Enervating Touch 1 x Impaling Stab 2 x Bad Luck 2 x Greater Heal 1 x Block 1 x Desperate Block 2 x Help The Weak 4 x Tricky Stab 1 x Horned Plates 2 x Reliable Mail 2 x Unreliable Block 2 x Lunging Strike 1 x Heal 2 x Martyr Blessing 2 x Mass Frenzy 1 x Vulnerable 1 x Parry 1 x Devastating Blow 1 x Team Heal 1 x Shuffle 1 x Inspirational Thinking 1 x Altruism
Ahh, the exciting life of a beta tester. First someone realizes that Talented Healer can lead to an infinite exploit, and it gets changed. Then the hard-working beta testers find another way to go unto infinity in Leadership. Until right now, I had no idea that Leadership was about to become a terror: all I'd known is that people speak often about how awesome it is. Can we predict what cards will become infinitely exploitable next?
For the time being I do feel that Leadership does require some attention. My initial response it to limit it to one copy per item, much like what was done with Resistant Hide. Then further investigation would be necessary to determine if that would be enough of a change to prevent such infinite combinations. However, I don't feel that RattyZ the best solution. It seems that Priests are the source of, "the infinite corruption" which has repeatedly reared its head in Card Hunter.
Okay... Leadership is only really abused by priests in connection with the draw they are able to produce. Martyrs Blessing has been changed as a result of self mutilating/healing combinations. Talented Healer has been changed repeatedly due to infinite combos, making it the card we know today. So, I'm lead to wonder where is your proof for the source of infinite corruption being humans?
Because Advanced Flexibility and Advanced Command only belong to humans. Even if there were no infinite draws in this game, human specialty cards like leadership and team sprint would still completely outclass other racial skills. Toughness? Or being able to redraw 12 new cards? Laugh. Elvish insight? Or being able to move your entire team across the map, and ignore all encumber effects? Laugh again. I pretty much see humans 7 times out of 10 for most classes nowadays. Everyone knows they're OP because they're the most versatile.
Getting back on topic. I decided that since the latest heat that Leadership is under has left a bad taste in my mouth. So, I dropped the humans in exchange for a few stockier fellows. In case you can't tell I play this game to have fun. Not necessarily to win. Without further adieu. Meet the dwaven wizard trio. The amazing thing is that this build only has two attacks that deal more than 5 damage. Not to mention so far this build has a 75% win rate. In case you weren't able to tell from their names these brothers like to play around with their victims, taunting them with such quotes as, "get over here," "dance puppets dance," and "which way did he go George, which way did he go?" Utilizing push and slide after slapping a Path Of Knifes on there opponents they are able to make up for their lack of conventional damage output. Edit: I will as time permits explain each build. Dumbledwarf Level 20 Dwarf Wizard Staff Of WinterStaff Of DefenseSarigo's RodRod Of WindsLocket Of The GaleStone Of ShardsTempest RobesSalazar's SandalsTrained FerocityElectroporter Novice1 x Charge1 x Dwarven Battle Cry1 x Energizing Move2 x Whirlwind1 x Ember Spray1 x Maze1 x Stone Spikes2 x Simple Bash1 x Little Zap1 x Unreliable Block4 x Frost Jolt1 x Spark Generator2 x Path Of Knives3 x Winds Of War2 x Force Bolt1 x Rusty Armor1 x Dimensional Traveller1 x Team Run1 x Weak Block1 x Cold Snap3 x Whirlwind Enemies1 x Spark Inductor1 x Reflexive Teleport1 x Resistant Hide1 x Chilling Rime Pushy Level 1 Dwarf Wizard Wallbuilder's StaffStaff Of DefenseBlood LocketBlood LocketWand Of Hot WindsSensate's RingTempest RobesBoots Of The CheetahAdvanced FerocityElectroporter Novice2 x Wall Of Stone1 x Resistant Hide1 x Improved Telekinesis1 x Dwarven Battle Cry2 x Maze1 x War Cry2 x Sprint1 x Hot Spot1 x Dimensional Traveller1 x Weak Block3 x Wall Of Illusion3 x Squeamish1 x Rushing Aura1 x Spark Generator2 x Simple Bash1 x Little Zap1 x Whirlwind2 x Whirlwind Enemies1 x Blind Rage2 x Force Bolt2 x Path Of Knives1 x Boiling Armor1 x Spark Inductor2 x Winds Of War Slider Level 1 Dwarf Wizard Ironwood Staff Of The MagusCottonwood StaffBloody BraceletLocket Of The GaleLocket Of The GaleStone Of ShardsGreen Hide RobeBoots Of The CheetahPerfect FerocityElectroporter Novice1 x Nimble Strike1 x Wall Of Fire1 x Dwarven Battle Cry2 x Sprint2 x Ember Spray1 x Surging Bolt1 x Quick Run1 x Little Zap1 x Rushing Aura1 x Obliterating Spark1 x Spark Generator2 x Path Of Knives5 x Winds Of War1 x Desperate Block1 x Parry1 x Dimensional Traveller1 x Blind Rage1 x Frenzy Aura2 x Barge3 x Stone Spikes1 x Sizzling Bolt1 x Reliable Hide Armor1 x Spark Inductor1 x Reflexive Teleport2 x Spark
That's a sweet build. Damn stone of shards is nice. Electroporter novice is the gift that keeps on giving.
Since I broke into 1500+ bracket last night, I figured my build is now worth sharing. The build is pretty much the standard warrior-wizard-priest. Each of them capable of packing a punch on their own. It wasn't focusing on a particular combo or gimmick, just a deck with consistency and respond (not counter) to most situation. (Immovable for whirlwind, Hover for lava, Sprint + Step for Encumber, Frost for Step-Warrior, Purge for Impenetrable Nimbus (though situational at best)). Total of 4 Epic, 0 Legendary Tank Fighter Level 20 Dwarf Warrior Double-edged Sword Blazing Shortsword Bejeweled Shortsword Gauntlets Of The Giant Ricochet Buckler Gouging Helm Boots Of The Cheetah Solid Rock Superb Impaling 3 x Fiery Stab 1 x Toughness 1 x Wounded Block 2 x Sprint 2 x Missile Block 1 x Potent Stab 1 x Combustible 1 x Clumsy Chop 3 x Powerful Hack 2 x Vicious Thrust 1 x Backbiting Strike 1 x Reliable Hide Armor 1 x Frenzy Aura 2 x Impaler 1 x Parry 1 x Shimmering Aura 1 x Immovable 1 x Stab 2 x Lunging Thrust 1 x Reliable Mail 1 x Rushing Aura 2 x Dancing Cut 3 x Impaling Stab 1 x Powerful Bludgeon Human Wiz Level 20 Human Wizard Chillwood Staff Staff Of Winter Runestone Greenstone Pendant Rod Of Palver Pree Blasting Rod Robe Of Lightness Glimmer Boots Perfect Command Superb Electromancy 2 x Winds Of War 1 x Cloth Armor 1 x Hardy Mail 1 x Bungled Bolt 2 x Spark Generator 1 x Big Zap 1 x Run 1 x Run, Team! 2 x Mighty Spark 2 x Hover 1 x Obliterating Spark 1 x Stone Spikes 2 x Chilling Rime 1 x Whirlwind Enemies 2 x Force Blast 1 x Little Zap 1 x Hot Spot 1 x Flanking Move 1 x Wall Of Fire 5 x Frost Jolt 2 x Cold Snap 1 x Dash, Team! 2 x Squeamish 1 x Telekinesis Human Healer Level 1 Human Priest Demon's Golden Blade Mendicant's Spear Spiked Greaves Dueler's Buckler Possessed Shoes Silver Healing Ring Shuddering Relic St Ulrich's Bones Advanced Flexibility Trained Cleansing 1 x Parry 1 x Block 1 x Cleansing Ray 1 x Horned Plates 1 x Demonic Pain 1 x Holy Presence 2 x Leadership 1 x Immovable 1 x Enervating Touch 1 x Invigorating Touch 2 x Puncturing Stab 1 x Help The Weak 1 x Greater Heal 1 x Shuffle 1 x Martyr Blessing 1 x Bless 1 x Vulnerable 1 x Mass Frenzy 3 x Obliterating Chop 1 x Slowed 2 x Limited Heal 2 x Potent Stab 1 x Impenetrable Nimbus 1 x Purge 1 x Unholy Wellspring 1 x Crafted Mail 1 x Boosted Heal 1 x Unreliable Block 1 x Demonic Feedback 1 x Cautious Sneak
First, i agree with your points on priests. The degenerate builds I've seen so far have all involved multiple priests. Priests still have traits that can be used for a lot of additional card draw each turn, and I'm not surprised we keep finding issues. So here's my issue with Leadership. Essentially, I think Leadership has become so popular because of the limits imposed by the game design. I expect that removing it will have a major ripple effect. Many builds struggle to include enough "answer" cards (cards that allow your deck to respond to or answer a specific threat) in order to deal with problems in the meta. This is due to the restrictive nature of items. You need to be able to reliably draw your answer cards, but that's dependent on how many cards you can actually put into the deck. This is why people keep turning to Leadership, they need a way to find the couple of answer cards they can fit in any deck. If you remove that, than decks won't be able to reliably find answers. That drops the floor out from under any metagame. As a very basic example. A warrior can only include 2-3 arrogant armor cards, as a potential answer to encumber. While wizards can run well in excess of 12+ encumber cards. So each turn a mage has a much better chance to draw an encumber card than a warrior has to draw an answer card. You see this same issue with all types of "answer" cards where, due to the limits imposed by items, you can only fit a few of the answer cards into a deck. This creates a significant imbalance in deck building, and leadership has been the only real solution.
Does anyone know how viable the basic starter deck is in multiplayer? I think when the game resets I am going to see how high I can get without replacing any of the items in the starter kit. I have already made it to the top 20without spending a penny but I did win the single player so I want to see if you can win without paying playing slot or beating the single player. Battle on Loop Dragonblade
My estimate for the, "Basic Starter Deck" is a rating of 1100. This estimate is based on recent play against the AI using an unmodified Adventurers Starter Deck party.
Have any stats on this? Not questioning your estimation (as I tend to find them pretty generous) but would be interested in the data collected.
Here is a list of my recent matches using the Adventurers Starter Deck Party, against the AI (using my test account): Against Gary, I won 6 out of 6 matches. Against Melvin, I won 9 out of 10 matches. Against Amy, I won 2 out of 3 matches. Against Mom. I won 0 out of 1 match. Total matches won: 17 out of 20, at a 85% win record. All of these matches were played within the past 24sh hours.
