Lucky Dice's thought.

Discussion in 'Castle Mitternacht Playtest' started by Lucky Dice, Sep 30, 2016.

  1. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    Games played: ~8. All but one streamed.
    Decks played: Various decks:
    Ecurancel
    Level 1 Elf Priest

    Rothhalngwe
    Level 1 Elf Priest

    Dirwen
    Level 1 Elf Priest
    Valsla
    Level 18 Human Priest

    Rutzungor
    Level 1 Dwarf Wizard

    Glorthorthien
    Level 1 Elf Warrior

    Opponents played: Also various. Notable: Acid spam + hex, Vampires.

    Feedback: I'm... kinda shocked Vampire's Kiss is a thing. It's not broken, it's just... creating boring matches. You end up having a fight of 3 vampires vs 3 vampires without any real issues on the way. it also just happens to be removing everything from your opponent's hand. Armor? No problem. Attacks? Pff. The biggest problem in my eyes, despite not seeing that, would probably be Boost removing.

    Oh, and let's not forget it's all on a PRIEST. AGAIN.

    Acid seems pretty balanced. You need to be ahead, for example control Victory Tiles, and have some control to play it and do stuff with it.

    So basically there's little problem with the forms themselves. Usually the game breakers are things that force forms on you. Unwillingly. Vampire's Kiss is probably THE offender. This Nighty card isn't half bad, because it lets you keep your things at hand, but the kiss just does way too much for a Silver.

    Say we remove the kiss, hypothetically. Then all the remaining armors should have their quality raised a bit, because they can't be as easily discarded anymore.

    One of the players I faced was afraid of the power creep and I kinda see why. The Hex after just a few acid cards does more than Punishing Bolt on a larger range. I suggest lowering its base damage a bit. 2 does sound like the card would still pack a punch, but not as much as it currently does. Reducing the range to 5 also wouldn't hurt methinks.

    Btw, Flax, remember how you mentioned 3x Toughened Hide Strips are probably too good to add to the game? Then what is this Monstrous Hide doing here.

    I know it doesn't sound like I'm really enjoying the update, but that's more because of my overloaded Mozilla, which causes everything to lag tremendously. Most of the stuff I've seen can be summed up as "whoa, that can be used with X" or "wow, I was hoping for better itemization of this and here it is!". Don't let it be ruined by a single manly kiss.

    EDIT: I noticed cards "drawn" naturally in a form don't count towards draw limit, possibly allowing for infinite drawing w/ Martyr or Elven Maneuvers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
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  2. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    Thanks, recording it is fantastic.

    And I'm not worried about people sounding like they're not enjoying it. This is a phase where the content needs more polish. I'm happy for the honest feedback.
     
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  3. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    Day 2. I played one game off the stream.

    (I saw Maniafig's post but I'm hoping the live reaction and thinking... at times, at least... is enough of a detail for the games.)

    Games played: 6
    Decks used:

    Smithton
    Level 1 Human Priest

    Ulykal
    Level 1 Human Priest

    Magwinfinen
    Level 1 Elf Warrior

    Played against: 2x Acid decks and 1 weird triple priest deck that was all about purging, walpurgis and daylight. Clever. Also, with a 2nd deck, against silver damage elves (!) and some weird 1-1-1.

    Feedback:

    Vampire's Kiss: I finally found a good solution to truly make it a silver card! Lower the damage by 1 and keep all the effects this card has... only when targetting an ally. When you target an opponent, it's Heal 1 for every damage and NOTHING ELSE. That allows us to utilize either Xander, or Wind Dancer for some powerful 2nd life kinda stuff, while not being annoying to fight against.

    Boo: People will say that it's OP. And... I'm not sure if I agree on that. On one hand, this is a horrible card when you have nothing you can purge yourself with (Arrogant Armor, Mystical armor, Warp Run), on the other, when you're prepared, it's essentially a useless silver card in opponent's deck. In my opinion this card is silver, because sometimes it's gold and sometimes it's a handicap, if it makes any sense. What I do have a problem with is its itemization. Slightly too good. Basically every deck can fit a few of these in.

    Walpurgis: Very powerful, but also very random. Very good when you're prepared for it. A positive thing is its itemization. You can't fully benefit from Walpurgis if you equip the 2x walpurgis item, that's very nice. See, this is how I like cursing opponents with Forms. They can potentially benefit from it instead of removing all their property.

    Spark of Undeath: What's with that name? Undeath? lol... But that's beside the point. How do I put it... there are way too many occasions where using this is beneficial. This is Demonic Power without self-damage + half of unholy wellspring + change of a form. For a gold. Said form also offers some good attacks, so if you happened to have AoA in your hand (really easy with Werevolves), you have some easy solid damage. With that said, I have no idea how to improve it. Maybe it should be a one-card draw? I'd also double the amount of every single card in Zombie's deck and add one Festering Guts. So that the guts are rare, but not impossible to get.

    Vengeance: Surprisingly balanced. There are many occasions where having this would win you the game. I found it best with Martyr Blessing or Elven Maneuvers (when you have that thing with 4 steps and 2 vengeances). The fact that it has 9 damage is troubling though. Think of it this way: Sparkling Cloth Armor gives you the same effect, but other than that effect it's also 1 armor on a 3+ roll. If this was just a 1 armor 3+, it would be paper- at best. If Vengeance was just an attack, it would be Bronze+, which, considering that, should make the actual thing with movement a Gold+. Currently it's... Gold, judging by the items. How about reducing the attack of the Vengeance to 7 or 8? It's not huge, but it's good enough. Vengeance already has a perfect duo for maps with difficult terrain in form of...

    Prowl: This thing is AMAZING. I love it, because everyone can use it. Yes, even wizards! I'm surprised this is only Bronze. I'd put it slightly higher, maybe at Silver- or Bronze+.

    Silver damage: Very high risk - high reward kind of thing.

    Snarlcub Hide: I know thematically this wouldn't make a lot of sense, but shouldn't these Hide Strips be replaced with Officer's Harnesses for balance? Mail, if you can allow changes in rarity. As I mentioned earlier, you said during AA that a 3x Toughened Hide Strips armor is slightly too powerful.

    I believe that with some of the changes I mentioned the game would be amazing. Yesterday I was worried about everything being too powerful. Today I can see that it's only a few cards.

    I also still stand by my opinion about Hex.
     
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  4. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    Thanks!
     
  5. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    does that feedback even count towards anything? just curious, I can change the format somehow, but I have a memory of a goldfish when it comes to matches. Streaming doesn't go well with writing stuff after every game, so there's that too.
     
  6. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    If you're recording your matches, and also providing your thoughts, that's good enough for me.
     
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  7. In my personal experience, vampire's kiss is almost as good on your own characters as on the enemy. In a match against Stupid(there's a number on the end of his name) he took 3 human priests, clustered on the vp, and kissed his own characters for health and vampire attacks. If one of his characters became low on health, they would either use a kiss on another one of his chars or do a normal transfer with a different vamp attack on one of his own folks. If things got really dire, he might even target an enemy.
    Vampire's kiss is way too good, and the itemization is ridiculous. I'm not really sure what should be done about it. I think your suggestions are a good start, but they aren't a full solution.
     
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  8. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    Maybe it should get a slightly worse itemization. I dunno.

    Regardless, Here's Day 3.

    Matches played: 6.
    Decks used: The 2nd deck from day 2 and:



    Decks I played against: Here's where my goldfish memory starts showing. I only remember kernel1's Walpurgis + Inquisition Bolt thing, one deck w/ vamps and another impressive deck utilizing Spark of Undeath to Accel Time the Blind Rage for solid damage.

    Feedback:

    Ancient Grudge - After playing it with said Pathfinding, I have to say... rofl. My first match was a solid stomp due to me getting Pathfinding t1 and t2, along with some Ancient Grudges, resulting in one-shotting everyone, but then I don't feel like I won. The card itself is fine. If Chask had Dropped Guard or some other discarding trait, I'd have problems with the grudge mixing with this thing way too well. But as is, it's just good. But that's just the card.
    Itemization is a different beast totally. This attack can easily reach the Punishing Bolt levels of being playable. With that in mind, how come it's on arcane items? If anything, I'd say that even Ember Burst is more suitable for an arcane item, because it can't get that high this fast.
    So all in all I have a feeling that a good player would be able to stomp more than 50% matches with this build, because he'd have all the options covered. So maybe this should get on staves instead...?
    As for a possible replacement of Ancient Grudge, I have just the thing... JUMPSPARK! It needs some buffs... Please? ;__;

    Swarm of Bats - ...Speaking of itemization, this thing right here. I think this card would be more balanced if it was less accessable to priests. Vampire form is fine, Divine items... less so. It's doing way too much for vamps.
    - Setting up the next attack (which CAN be unblockable!)
    - Moving out of danger
    - Getting out of a jail free
    - Dodging an attack GUARANTEED (Block 1+ in a way)
    Like, the utility that comes with it is too much. I still think Violent Spin is undervalued for a gold, but this? This should be Emerald for sure. Especially when you consider Uncanny Dodge which is, mind you, AMETHYST, and does way less... at least currently.
    I can only suggest doing one of the three things:
    - Give it a roll. And not 2+ or something - give it a 3 or even 4+. Currently there's no reason to not have one of these babies in your deck, and that's because of it being, essentially, a Surging Shield Block without a roll and with Teleport.
    - Remove Teleport. That would remove the cantrip "next attack is unblocked" aspect of the card.
    - Change their place from Divine items to Divine Armor, where, I should point out, it would be more logical, given that Robes already can pack movement cards.
    I don't think I mind this card's itemization on wizards.
    Note to self: making a deck with Vampire Knight's Boots on Warriors and seeing what happens.

    Vanguard - This card is scary, but this card is perfect as well. In Cardhuntria, this card is equivalent to separating boys from MEN of strategy, I feel like good players are able to use this extra 1 tile of movement to perfection and bad players think it's not all that good.
    With that said, shouldn't the third card on Subtle Positioning be something different than a rather useful Subtle Parry? How about a Flimsy Block or Weak Block? Still useful, but on a smaller scale. Just a small tweak.

    Walpurgis Night - Currently this card is slightly off. Something about it. Not the itemization, maybe the concept. Without a doubt the cards that you get via Walpurgis are strong, and the forms themselves are good, but... at the same time, the card does two things:
    - It disrupts every opponent deck that doesn't relate to forms or doesn't have Arrogant Armor/Mystical armor/Purges. And even with Purges...
    - It adds a form's card to your hand, making it so that - yes, you can use it, but your opponent can use the card in your hand to buff his attack. Inquisition Bolt from today's match comes to my mind.

    Creature of the Night - I'm not sure if this is a bad enough handicap to justify strong cards coming with it. Silver Damage is a hit or miss. There's a Monster Hide thing that doesn't prevent silver but prevents everything else, and there's an Inquisitor's Badge to make silver absolutely obsolete. Would 4 more damage taken from Silver attacks, maybe even 5, be a good idea?

    Daylight - It feels... random. For some reason it just feels hard for me to utilize that well, maybe it's underpowered by a wee bit. The forms themselves don't help - only, like, Zombie and Vampire have any reason to be afraid of this card. Spirits are immune to it and Werevolves have innate reliable mail + they can get the monstery hide.
    I understand it's cool to have a Holy damage for once, but maybe it should be Silver? Maybe the heal/hurt factor should be increased a bit? I feel like Inspiring Presence is better than Daylight in most scenarios, since the stuff you can draw from it can benefit you more vs Spirits/Werevolves.
     
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  9. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    Thanks, got your games noted.
     
  10. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    Day 4.

    Deck played:
    So, more about it, I guess.

    I took old items and mixed them with the new ones, as I believe that's how the newer version of the ADHD dwarves would look like. Howls for semi-cycling and self-heals, Nimbles for movement, Prowl for movement and extra damage and Vengeance for movement. And then there's a Cushion. I had a situation TWICE where I got a Monstery Hide from Howl and then I got a Cushion from the draw, so effectively, everything but Penetrating and Silver damage was a 2 HP loss. These dwarves seemed impossible to take down after a few Howls.

    Opponent's decks: Whopping 3 times I got a deck with Ancient Grudge as a core thing, one time it was an acid wiz trio and one time it was a seemingly random 1-1-1.

    Feedback:

    Captain Cedric's Vow - That thing is too good for a single minor. 2 Vengeances and a Blind Rage? Good lord that's powerful. And the remaining 3 cards are unable to change that. Vengeance is Gold for a reason. I'd straight-forward change this Blind Rage into something that would make it double minor.

    Howling Pain - Yes, I know it's Pain because it has Nimble Strikes, but for the balance purpose I think they should be replaced by something that's less of a utility. Jumping through Illusion Walls and Water tiles is ridiculously good and paired up with the easy ways of buffing that... yeah, well.

    Sanctified Shroud - Replacing one of these new healing things with a good old Holy Armor would probably not make it a go-to divine armor for a support priest.

    My opinion about Ancient Grudge, despite it having quite an impressive showing (recorded on stream, along with 5 matches of mine, is a half of a match I decided to spectate), still stands. It's good, it's not too good, but it being on arcane items is unjustified.

    Vampire's Kiss, as said many times, in need of a dire nerf.

    other than that I don't know how do I even provide more feedback on the next days, if I were to continue, so I'm looking for any help regarding that...
     
  11. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    We're going to try to iterate in the next few days. Take a break :)
     
  12. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    no can do, as a general manager of the anti-meta organisation it is my duty to try out a thing called a Peasant deck. Basically I was curious if a new player who has a knowledge of what they're doing can do anything in the game. And, well...

    Day 5, a shorter one.

    3 games played.
    Deck used:
    Valsla
    Level 18 Human Priest

    Glorthorthien
    Level 1 Elf Warrior

    Gnemdawi
    Level 18 Dwarf Wizard


    Opponents played: A 2 warriors 1 priest deck, a 2 priests w/ Vampire's Kiss and 1 wizard with Inquisitor's Bolt and a triple wizard deck with smoke + flood + TK spam. Only lost vs the Kiss + Bolt thing.

    Feedback:
    ...Yes, the new commons and uncommons are strong. Strong enough to be winning with only these, as proven by the result. Control staves with Winds and Gusts of War are certainly good, as they allow people to play not awkward, cheap to build wizards! I think this was the goal, so well done on that.

    Notable items I loved:
    - Captain's Gumshoes - Very useful pair of boots, one that an experienced player can utilize well. If he lacks Vengeance, then a copy of Sparkling Cloth Armor from these boots can prove to be helpful. As a matter of fact, it probably could be nice to play that paired with Vanguard.
    - Cautious Sentry Boots - Cheapest and best Jump Back available, comes along with a nice armor/movement and a silver immunity! Just all around good.
    - Whirling Flail - WHIRLING WITHOUT A BERSERK SPIN?! But on a more serious note, it is amazing in its current state. A viable sidegrade from the Bejewelled Shortsword.

    Oh, and a thing I had about the Wind Dancer. I don't really know if it being silver isn't overcosted. Arcane wizards don't react to any Unreliable Block. If anything, it starts being a handicap when they just let out their Punishing Bolts. I think that instead of an unreliable, this could've been a Flimsy Block... Or, if I'm wrong, the one that protects you only when the damage is less than 2. It's 3+ iirc, so not that easy to go around with wizards. Maybe with this block the value on that Wind Dancer could be raised. As is, it's just a bonus thing for step warriors that can mostly only hurt against wizards.
     
  13. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    ...And after I think the Wind Dancer was weak, Flax nerfs it even more. .__.

    Day 1, 2nd version of CM! (Or MN)

    Games played: 6

    Decks used:
    small thing I love about new cards is how cool 2 wiz 1 war now is

    Valsla
    Level 18 Human Priest

    Smithton
    Level 1 Human Priest

    Ulykal
    Level 1 Human Priest

    and that elven vamps triplet higher up, 1st post I think

    Played against: Mostly 3x control wizards + Ancient Grudge. There was one weird deck I don't remember. I think all but one game were played against vitreo.

    Okay, so I kinda want to write stuff today. I'll separate my feedback into two parts.

    First impressions:

    This will contain stuff I have a strong opinion on without actually playing that card/item yet.

    Wind Dancer - Before the balance came out, I had no idea why is it silver. Now I'm even more clueless. It's too weak for silver for reasons stated above. As a matter of fact, with nerfed Vampire's Kiss, this seems worse than ever.

    Vengeance, Inquisition Bolt, Ethereal Form, Lycanthropic Form, Snarlcub Hide, Subterranean Ferocity - Good changes, despite me not seeing the last one in action all that much.

    Actual Feedback:

    Vampire's Kiss - This feels more right, yet still a bit off. I've ended up using this in one of two situations: using it on teammates to heal myself and change their unwanted card into something potentially good or finishing opponents. I think I only used this as an attack for the sake of attacking once. I feel like it's still a good semi-counter to Cushion + Reliable Mail, so kudos for that. Now we need a card that would allow us the pre-nerf Vampire's Kiss effect on teammates!

    Ancient Grudge - I've said it before and I'll say it again - this thing doesn't belong on Arcane Items. It's too powerful on them. The card itself seems to be better for bronze, but its itemization makes it emerald, quite frankly. For what it's worth, it requires more effort, but that doesn't make it fair. If it was kept to being on staves, it'd be perfect, but as of now, this is probably the card I hate the most. Vitreo's deck was probably one of the most frustrating decks to play against in that regard.

    Sacred Shroud - Very reasonable for a Silver now... and that's about it. ^^

    Hex of Dissolution - I think it's a case of a perfect rebalance. It's almost like changing Major Erratic Damage to Minor Erratic Damage, if you know what I mean. It's better at its worst and worse at its best, which is just good.

    the test server thing was rather empty today
     
  14. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    Just clarified the text, no actual change to function!
     
  15. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    You could've clarified that in favor of this Silver card tho ;_;

    Here is day 2.
    Yes, each word leads to a different link, and that's because my OBS kept disconnecting for no reason.

    Games played: 4
    Decks played: First one from my last post and:
    Smithton
    Level 1 Human Priest

    Ulykal
    Level 1 Human Priest

    Magwinfinen
    Level 1 Elf Warrior
    (I actually just recreated this right now, after the stream, because I legit forgot to save this deck)

    Opponents' decks: vitreo was attempting some different stuff, 2 wiz 1 war, 2 war 1 wiz. That warrior was pretty, uh, standard, I guess. Wizards had control-y stuff and ancient grudges. Oh, and punishing bolts.

    Feedback:

    Test server - I think people need slightly more encouragement. Last two days the biggest amount of people on the server was... 5. At least when I was there. I'm clueless as of what could be done, but I just wanted to put this here.

    Walpurgis Night - It's incredibly unreliable. It went from being occassionally good in some decks to... well, being good if you like a russian roulette. When I drew Arrogant Armor instantly, the deck was pretty similar to what it was earlier. Actually, due to sunlight buff, it was probably even better. Without it, however, it was difficult to have beneficial Walpurgis. As Mandatory Action, it doesn't feel right at Silver.

    My suggestion would be - make it less omnipresent, less disruptive, but not a Mandatory Action? Daylight is range 5 in LoS, maybe the Night should be similar? Especially when you consider how it purges everything as well.

    Daylight - Certainly feels way better than it did. It finally punishes forms as it should, when lucky enough can result in heals for days and unpreventable damage. If it interacts with Healing Spirit to the point where the damage is also buffed, then you can consider me even happier with it. My only minor complaint about it is its lackluster itemization, but that can be fixed in future AAs ^^

    Ethereal Form - I'm not sure if Mind Muddle removal was a good thing. Because of that, this form feels somewhat weak. I'd say, -Doom, +Mind Muddle. Doom is slightly mediocre for Gold.

    Acid wizards - They feel godlike on open maps, below average on tight, narrowed ones. So overall I guess it's good!
     
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  16. wereviper

    wereviper Ogre

    I'll agree with you here, Lucky Dice. Acid wizards was the first build I tried and I believe they can be pretty nasty on the right maps where there are plenty of tight spaces plus if the wizards have Hover they can avoid the Acid damage themselves right?
     
  17. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    They can avoid damage from Acid tiles. Not the Hex though.
     
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  18. wereviper

    wereviper Ogre

    Thanks for clearing that up, Lucky Dice. I'm sure there are other ways to avoid the Hex damage or at least reduce it.
     
  19. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    3/4th of day 3 because my OBS kept disconnecting for no reason

    Games played: 4
    Decks used:
    Rothcirdhilmin
    Level 1 Elf Wizard

    Roththircelborn
    Level 1 Elf Wizard

    Ulykal
    Level 1 Human Priest

    Ulykal
    Level 1 Human Priest

    Emfaraxe
    Level 21 Human Warrior

    Progerr
    Level 21 Human Warrior

    Played against: CT5 3 times and tmzerozero 1 time. Latter using triple Cushioning Vengeance Vanguard human warriors. This last fight wasn't recorded (damn you OBS!), so I'll try my best to describe it.

    My elven wiz got ambushed early on by stepping vanguarding warriors and it couldn't really do much back. it wasn't until the second turn when I've gotten the pathfinding, so I used it... and then, after hitting a Cushioned warrior, I used Inspiring Presence. Dumb me. Naturally, I lost due to elves dying fast.

    Feedback:

    Ancient Grudge - way too easy to equip. Guess I'm repeating myself at this point...

    Vengeance - slightly too good itemization. For starters, Cedric shouldn't have 2 of these for 1 minor, regardless of what else does this thing have. 1 is a lot already. You can put something like Penetrating Stab instead of 1 Vengeance to balance it out a wee bit? Same with the Trident. I know you love powerhouse elves, but... yeah. Steps + 1 Vengeance is good enough.
    I should probably put it in a different way. In my opinion, no warrior should have access to more than 3 Vengeance...s? It's good to let tanks have some hidden mobility, but that's going slightly too crazy.

    Vanguard - I have an idea, but it's convoluted one. Make it not proc on Nimble Strike and Dancing Cut. Especially Nimble Strike. It's slightly too good in these triple warrior decks. The fact that unfinished steps proc Vanguard and not Wind Dancer also makes me sad.

    Inquisition Bolt - Perfect for Bronze. Not too strong, has a cool niche and is range 6. This "show all cards" thing indirectly buffed Club of Devastation and other Devastating Blow sources! So... kudos!

    I have 1 or 2 more decks to test. I'll do that tomorrow, probably.
     
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  20. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    Thank you for all your help with the Castle Mitternacht playtest.

    Unless you posted more in another thread (in which case, sorry I missed it), I have you at around 45 games.

    You will receive 9 Epic Mitternacht chests when this content is released.
     

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