Aloyzo's Arsenal Discussion Thread

Even if they aren't photographers, you know how to shoot a great photo. You ask them what could be the possible theme of it. And, who knows, their suggestion could just be the push you needed.

I think all these little things are justified in their own right honestly. No discussing submitted items publicly means "Think before you act". Vote from Flax' shortlist instead of global vote from all the items means "These are all items we'd pick if there weren't better ones, so feel free to pick something you'd want to see the most!"

Seriously, no need to make it an anarchistic contest. It's in a good place right now. Chill man.

 

Maybe, but you'd still get BETTER insight from those who know the subject (i.e. actual people who play Card Hunter instead of random people who don't).

I don't see how discussing things means you don't "think before you act."

Picking from Flax's shortlist for items to be included is something I agree with. If we left every submission up to community voting it could end up being a nightmare. Definitely agree with that decision. Heck, I'd even agree if he didn't want a community voted item at all (or only a community voted item from his shortlist). The only problems I have is posting guidelines and breaking them in his selection (the multiple monster cards -- which has since been generally fixed by including another item) and prohibiting discussing on current submissions (makes no logical sense and limits the community helping each other out). When I look to other contests that people have run I never see a statement saying "discussing current entries is against the rules." Have you ever seen that before? If so I'd love to see it!

 

Contests where you have no idea what others have submitted. You can't discuss anything here ^^

Other than that, honestly can't think of any, but... even if, I don't think in art contests people would ask others what do they think of my work AFTER it's submitted to the contest. Of course the difference is that here, in AA, you can edit your submission (and I think that's why we weren't allowed to edit it in the first place), but normally, when you submit a work, you are sure you have submitted something top notch, and you're happy about the result. Usually when you're an artist, you feel that "yeah, this is right" and there's not much that can change that view on your own work. I know that from my own experience. Hell, many artists in this world history had to go through that, only to be appreciated AFTER they died!

If I were Flax I'd lock the submissions. You post something once, you can't change it. That way this would:

a) act as a real art contest
b) make people "think before they act" as I said earlier.

On the other note, thanks for that reply, I still can't focus as I usually do, so that reply brightened my mind a small bit and explained me things I couldn't figure out.

 

You can still post your ideas and discuss them in contests where no one can see submissions. I'm talking about opening up the ability for those who wish to discuss their entries before submitting them to get feedback. That's it. Being able to edit or not edit does not change that. Real art contests have people who get feedback from other artists, posts work-in-progresses, and talk about the contest in general including their entries. Again, I'd love to find a contest that prohibits people from openly discussing their own entries (before or after submission).

 

Silent auctions? (kidding, kidding)
More so, I think of it as a final project (for work, school, etc). There's no way I'd turn in a final project to my boss, let him see it, then tell him "oh, no, that's not going to do at all. I'd like to give you something else instead."
Yeah, pretty sure first thing he'd say is "why the hell are you wasting my time, Seth?"
And, from what I can tell, that's Flax issue. Why waste his time? I think of the devs as boss here. When you, Stexe, said he could just "ignore the posts" my thought was "no good boss is going to ignore what happens in their business."
Perhaps, man, you're not thinking about it from a business aspect, but I, for one, do.

 

It can hurt those who follow the rule and design an item without outside help.
There is definitely a place for open discussion, collaboration, and feedback. Academic exams are definite exceptions, and according to Flax, so is this contest.

Is there any way your continued agitating against individual non-collaborative contest entries promotes a strong community? (Because if there is, I've missed it.)
At this point we all understand you're sold on the value of open discussion, collaboration, and feedback.
Feedback is okay, but over time I've developed an abiding distrust of things designed by committees.
I know you're an expert on card and item design, and I know I'm not. I'd really like to see you make an Item Design 101 thread. I think members of the community who are serious about the game and/or item design could gain much from your shared knowledge and insights. Even a slacker dilettante like me might learn something. (Note: This request is separate from the whole Open Discussion debate.)

 

I'm saying if that rule was changed then how would it hurt people? Those who wanted help could still ask for it. Academic exams are not contests...

Protesting against unfair and illogical rules that limit people's freedom promotes a strong community by trying to remove said rules. It could also unify people into action which would promote community.

Design by committee is problematic, but asking for feedback is definitely not design by committee. The individual still has final call on all changes made.

I wouldn't say I'm an expert on card or item design. I do study game design in general, but that's a far cry from saying I'm an expert at it. I'd be up for making an "Item Design 101" thread if enough people were interested. I did something similar (although fairly sparse) with map making a while ago (http://forums.cardhunter.com/threads/multiplayer-board-submissions.6358/).

 

Promotes anarchy, not necessarily community. Attempting to rally "the community" against the devs is still a horrible idea, man.

 

It isn't anarchy. Anarchy would be to have no rules and just chaos. This is trying to get them to change a rule. And why is when I go against the devs and when it hurts no one else it is a horrible idea but when Flax (before being a dev) advocates giving people a verbal warning and reporting people in-game for simply playing with cards he didn't like it got support ( http://forums.cardhunter.com/threads/community-balancing-act.6032/ )? Yes, people complained about his methods too, but it resulted in change. Why can't my actions also result in change? And simply going against 1 rule is a far cry from verbally accosting players and reporting them for simply playing the game.

 

Fair enough. I don't see the rule as unfair or illogical, but I understand sticking to your beliefs. Convincing others and unifying them into action can be difficult.

You didn't have to say you're an expert on card or item design. I did. By my standards, you are. I think there are quite a few in the game. Discussion of items, card interactions and synergies, and such things are scattered all through the forums, but I think having a thread dedicated to discussing these in terms of of item design could improve the community's general level of understanding the design process.

That was a horrible idea, and when he was told to stop, he did.
Now he's a dev and is expected to behave like an adult.
Just desserts are my favorite flavor! (Provided they're served to someone else.)

 

Guys. We're going way off topic here. Stexe has made himself as heard as needs be and he should stop beating a dead horse. There's a disagreement and it needs to be moved past. This thread is for discussing the contest, not history, individuals' principles, or grudges. We're done. I will take moderation action to keep this thread on topic if I have to.

 

Yep. Never said it would be easy. =)

Well, I'm just voicing my own opinion about myself. I guess "expert" is a relative term. But anyway, sure, I'll make a thread discussing item design. EDIT: Made here: http://forums.cardhunter.com/threads/item-creation-design-discussion.8347/

Actually, he kept discussing it for 4+ days and 7 page threads. I discussed it for 2 days and 4 pages. Plus, my discussion goes against 1 person (Flax's rules) as opposed to Flax's which went against dozens of players. Yes, you'd expect he should behave like an adult -- instead of calling out specific people and villainizing them. Compare how Jon handled the situation to how Flax handled it:

Spoiler: Jon's quote

Spoiler: Flax's quote

Should I create a separate thread then? You closed my other one where I was talking about it outside of this thread. Again, something Jon never did while you complained about the game's balance. He even encouraged open discussion!: "Feel free to post your concerns here on the forums (which we do pay attention to) and complain to your heart's content, but please don't take out your frustration on other players." Yay, Jon!

Whatever. I'm done then. It is a joke and completely hypocritical that it is fine to do it one way but when the tables turn it is not okay.[/SPOILER]

 

I figure that it would be good for us all to take a step back, breathe, and shrug off some of the anger that has built up within. If at all possible, give yourself some time to forget some of your frustration before responding with further feedback. It should be obvious that defensive, mindless foaming at the mouth will do is contribute to the growing firestorm. There's no sense in taunting Flaxative unless you're a masochist for tongue lashings. Retreat from this conflict before cause for punishment is given.

In conclusion, allow me to present the first two of my much less serious "Harmony" series to contrast with my "Violent Protest" series.

Spoiler: Dwarven Levelheadedness

Dwarven Levelheadedness
Level 18 Epic Dwarf Skill

Spoiler: Le Tyet Globe

Le Tyet Globe
Level 15 Rare Arcane Item

In addition, here are some I made to further emphasize the joke from my starting paragraph.

Spoiler: El Vendetta

El Vendetta
Level ? ? Elf Skill ?

Spoiler: Incendiary Commentary

Incendiary Commentary
Level 3 Rare Arcane Item

Spoiler: Divine Admonishment

Divine Admonishment
Level 14 Rare Divine Item

 

lol. Nice. Just make sure you don't submit them in the contest or you'll be disqualified and banned! :-P

 

@Dieben you have all my likes! I seriously *needed* a good laugh!

 

To get back on topic, I'm going to discuss a selection of current AA submissions.
A lot of them are really quite good.
Several of them are excellent.
OOH, OOH, and THAT ONE! That one is friggin' AWESOME!
And, as usual, some don't meet the contest criteria, and don't have a chance unless revised.

 

Banned. Also, I never suggested people talk about OTHER people's submissions. I said if you wanted to ask for feedback on YOUR submission and talk about it then it is fine (since you're thereby accepting people's criticism directly -- otherwise people could slam individuals for their suggestions without any asking).

 

I appreciate your enthusiasm but I can assure you that horse is quite dead.

 

This is just a game!

 

An idea for discussion in this thread.

Spoiler