Your ideas for tweaking/nerfing some cards?

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by Lucky Dice, Oct 23, 2015.

  1. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Well, you can see I don't read the forums much, despite what many think. :-P
  2. Jezterscap

    Jezterscap Lizardman Priest

    Sprint team comes up again and again.
    If you draw it turn 1 you can advance across the whole board and focus down 1 character.
    Sure you can play around it by passing and saving moves but most of the time that is a mistake.
    As it is now you basically win the game if you draw it.
    Im not really sure how to fix it , maybe to add a "fright" or "halt" effect to the characters who moved that turn. (moving 8 squares takes the whole turn and the characters would be exhausted)
  3. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Ah yeah, forgot about Sprint Team / Sprint. I'd change them to move 6. Going from 4 to 8 is a huge jump, but 4 to 6 is a lot less so. Would still be strong but not dominantly so.
    Xayrn and Jezterscap like this.
  4. Jezterscap

    Jezterscap Lizardman Priest

    electroporter novice and focused electromancy kinda make it worthless, altho I have had a little success with it when they don't use or draw it.
    Stexe likes this.
  5. rinco69

    rinco69 Thaumaturge

    Bad Luck -> Subtract 2 instead of 1.
    Frenzy Aura -> 5+ instead of 4+... or armor 4 instead of 2.
    Horned Plates -> 5+ instead of 4+... or armor 5 instead of 3.
    Blind Rage -> Cannot be caused by radiation.
    Maze -> Moves at least 1 if possible.
  6. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    That can be pretty annoying if they are using Blue Destruction. I'd love to see Electroporter Novice and Cautious Mobility changed to 1 token (either by having an exception to the formula or changing the value of the cards). They are no brainer class/race items that basically remove almost all choice in selection.
    Wandere likes this.
  7. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Another thing I remembered: Telekinesis from "teleport" to "fly" -- it fixes weird instances on maps that can basically shut out someone completely by teleporting them behind a wall. Also,it makes a lot more sense that moving something with your mind is "fly" and not "teleporting" them.
    Xayrn and timeracers like this.
  8. gulo gulo

    gulo gulo Guild Leader

    Some thoughts I had about the ____, Team! cards in another thread. I think it would make movement feel 'correct' thematically, if nothing else.

    The only other thing I can think about working on would be encumber. I'd say to either change all encumbrance (cold) cards to duration 1 and let them stop someone with enough encumber, or increase the duration on all to 3, or do something super crazy and allow cold cards to allow full encumbrance if 2+ encumbering cards are attached to a character. Just things I can think of to make cold more playable; I have no idea what this would do to game play in general. I'm just looking at deficiencies from the wizard point of view, I suppose.

    (also, this is off topic, but arcane items with Jumpspark might be nice; from what I understand, it fits the requirements for an attack on an arcane item. It would allow you to equip these along with stronger elctro-staves, which might be nice.)
    Jezterscap, seth arue and Han Lee like this.
  9. haesslicherBob

    haesslicherBob Lizardman Priest

    Since I got the impression in other threads that you think you know exactly how the game should be (regardless of other players opinions), please elaborate on your suggestions (or my comments). In my opinion, most of the cards to be nerfed on your list (all you do is nerfing btw) are fine. I actually prefer the buff-weak-things-route.
  10. Han Lee

    Han Lee Guild Leader

    I feel that radiation terrain needs a buff... Maybe make radiation spray 2x targetable for more viable play
  11. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Oh, I definitely value other people's opinions. I might come off as strong willed, but I'm always open to discussion and hearing other thoughts.

    The main thing is not "is it used a lot" the thing is "does it prevent interesting decision making" ... Things like Smoke Bomb, Illusory Barrier, Volcano / Bless, Res Hide, Martyr, Nimbus, and more leading to inaction is not only boring, but extremely frustrating with binary counters (you either have the counter and use it, or don't and do nothing).

    Simply buffing weak things leads to power creep where everything slowly gets more powerful over time and eventually unmanageable. The best method is a combination of the two. I haven't really suggested buffs because there's a much larger number of things to look at. Plus, I'd do the nerfs first and then see how things crop up before buffing things. Doing both at the same time can lead to problems where the buffed things are simply too good due to the changed meta.
    Xayrn likes this.
  12. haesslicherBob

    haesslicherBob Lizardman Priest

    Thx for clarification. I suppose I get your approach now (although I do not share it).

    My assumption is (for high-ranked mp): people play what is competitive. Accordingly, things you do not see in high-ranked mp are either weak or the itemization is bad (which might be on purpose, but is a different story). So nerfing things which are already weak accomplishes nothing (apart from ruining a few fun builds).

    In your opinion the rock-paper-scissor-aspect of the game will be boring if you do not have the counter. In my opinion it is a great aspect of the game (people are different and there will never be the ONE perfect solution for balance making everybody happy). Things like smoke bomb open interesting decision making for me and do not prevent it. Smoke bomb can seriously ruin line of sight for enemy wizards and force them to adapt instead of just playing their burning cards from behind (for example). Granted, some things are harder to counter than others (I am looking at you burft), but everything CAN be countered.
  13. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    All of the things I mentioned are extremely strong in the right situation. You don't see Smoke Bomb teams because it really only shuts down mages, but on mage centric maps Smoke Bomb would be used. The problem is that maps are random from a set pool and most people will generalize builds that work for all the maps, instead of catering it to a specific one. However, if someone does run Smoke Bomb and happens to be on that specific map it is like a free win.

    Just because something CAN be countered doesn't mean it is interesting. That's like saying Imp Nimbus is fine because it can be countered with Purge. But it is so strong that without Purge you will do poorly, which means you're FORCED to run Purge. That reduces decision making.

    I'd like to see more games determined by good play than simply getting a good build/counter build match up before any play is decided.
    Jezterscap and Xayrn like this.
  14. seth arue

    seth arue Thaumaturge

    Or you just burn it off.....3 attachments and bye bye IN! Or you could radiation it off, etc. There's always more than one way to do something, friend.
    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.
  15. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Yeah... 3 cards to remove 1. That's awesome card efficiency!
  16. seth arue

    seth arue Thaumaturge

    The same could be said for Force Field. Shall we nerf it, too?
    With both FF and IN, you either have to Purge it away, use about 3 cards to get rid of 'em, or, ya know, just wait them out.
  17. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Yes, I suggested nerfs to FF as well.
  18. haesslicherBob

    haesslicherBob Lizardman Priest

    I have no idea about which "right situation" you are talking (obviously not ranked mp). Some cards might be problematic in theory (e.g. adaptable), but are far from an issue in actual gameplay, because you can only have one copy per deck (same with resistant hide). You will not draw them consistently. That fact is independant of the current map rotation.

    The smoke bomb example: There are always maps which are mage-friendly and maps which are warrior-friendly at any given rotation. If you DECIDE to use smoke bombs you give up attacking power or control cards. If you run into warriors it is quite useless (apart from preventing stabs). As you said, the meta is not static and will adapt according to what is effective.

    I have the feeling you want everything to be effective vs everything (which I think would be boring as hell). That would come down to just play your cards and the guy with the better items wins. Please accept that other players may not share your opinion about what is fun.
    seth arue likes this.
  19. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Yes, ranked MP. Smoke Bomb was used in neoncat's Smoke + Almighty Hack builds when Burst builds were in favor. Just because you can only have 1 copy per deck doesn't mean it isn't potentially problematic. Imagine having Only Bones available -- if you draw it then you're at a huge advantage, and if not then you're not really worse off. That brings a huge amount of variance to the game and can ultimately decide a battle by a single lucky draw at the start of the game.

    And it isn't true that there are always mage-friendly and warrior-friendly maps in a rotation. The old Halloween maps were all extremely mage friendly.

    I don't want everything to be effective against everything. I just want decisions to be interesting and meaningful. And that is the opposite of "just play your cards and the guy with the better item wins" -- it comes down to actual gameplay than whatever you may draw.
    Xayrn likes this.
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