Throwing ranked games is not OK

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Jon, Feb 1, 2015.

  1. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    An important note about playing ranked (and league) games: throwing a game early in order to deliberately lower your rating is not considered acceptable.

    What does that mean?
    • Resigning when you have a reasonable expectation that you can't win is fine.
    • Resigning casual games or campaign games for whatever reason is fine.
    • Resigning when you have some other real-life issue that needs dealing with is obviously fine too.
    Continually resigning early because you wish to lower your rating to get more favourable match-ups is not OK and will lead to banning from multiplayer play. Please don't do this.
  2. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    There are many reason why we don't want people to throw games without trying to win (in ranked multiplayer), but it boils down to this: it degrades the play experience for your opponent.
    ParodyKnaveBob, karadoc and Stexe like this.
  3. DunDunDun

    DunDunDun Thaumaturge

    Not that I'm arguing your point in any way, but when I take an average of 2 minutes per move, people tend to get MORE upset with me. :p

    I'll just accept that pvp isn't the place for me, and hope you get around to adding similar pve content at some point, or just add the straight-to-npc/doesn't-affect-ranking option us PvEers have been asking for.
    cycosurgeon, Jarmo and Sir Veza like this.
  4. CT5

    CT5 Guild Leader

    In my eyes, you're doing it right. This is a hard game, and time is but another resource. Nothing quite like winning with 1 second left on the clock :cool:

    In other words, keep enjoying this awesome game - the folks who want you to play faster are the ones missing out.
  5. Huey Laforet

    Huey Laforet Orc Soldier

    2 minutes? Are you kidding me?
    I get piss off when opponents take more than 20s for their move.

    Of course there are exceptions when you have to sit back to think or make some choices, but generally I prefer to play as fast as possible, and expect others to do so.
    Stexe likes this.
  6. Jade303

    Jade303 Thaumaturge

    I think that I can respect whatever speed my opponent is playing at as long as their focus is on playing a good game.
    If anyone wants to resign because their opponent is too slow/too fast, well I don't know what to say.

    As for throwing a game after the match starts because you expect you will lose OR because of a card your opponent uses OR because you don't like the map/your opponent's team/etc, (or because you don't like your opponent)- that's not cool, and it does make the game worse for everyone.
  7. DunDunDun

    DunDunDun Thaumaturge

    Most players have your outlook, Huey, which is why I try not to trouble them.
    And no, CT5, I'm NOT 'doing it right'.
    I'm severely brain-damaged, and I can't do simple things right.
    I'm also autistic, which means I have autistic pattern-obsession.

    My brain-damage means I screw things up regularly, and that AFTER taking a lengthy time trying to figure out things you all don't even need to think about thinking about. And when I screw something up, it breaks my pattern, meaning that my habit-based processing that helps mitigate my brain damage gets compromised, meaning it'll take me about 10 minutes to sort that back out.

    Quick draw has a lot less processing needed, but even that takes me 8 minutes to choose cards, and I'm completely exhausted after the second match.

    So the fact is, at some point, I'm going to screw up, and be forced to resign. And I personally find resigning mid-match FAR more offensive personally, and I didn't want to subject anyone to that [nevermind how stressful it is to me, especially as the reminder about my circumstances it is].

    And if anyone actually has fun playing against someone as erratic as me ["it degrades the play experience for your opponent."], that's an awkward testament to their character as well.

    My point being, regardless of how appropriate my resigning regularly was, it was most certainly done with respect and courtesy in mind.

    On the flip side, while there's an endless list of things I can't do in life, I figured that since there was an NPC element to it, I had a method of play I could handle.

    It's been discussed regularly in chat that we need a direct-to-npc option [that doesn't affect rating, which in turn is linked to actual prizes], by numerous PvE-preferential players. Of course, the PvP players in turn ask for the rating prizes, so in that sense, it's a pretty universal opinion.

    I'm hoping that Manchu'll take pity on me, and consider those requests.
    PDXTai likes this.
  8. DunDunDun

    DunDunDun Thaumaturge

    I totally agree with the listed standard of 'not intentionally lowering ranking so as to only fight players with lower rankings', which is clearly exploitative, even if there aren't necessarily exploit gains (other than time efficiency) that come out of it.

    Do note, other than initial testing to learn that I couldn't handle the PvP, I've ONLY been playing against the GM toons.

    Thus the topic of complaint here is that it's offensive to other players to forfeit at the start of the match, rather than a few turns in;
    Or alternatively, that since I'm forced to forfeit eventually anyway, that I personally should not be allowed to PvP.

    Which I'm fine with, if I can look forward to eventually getting something I can spend time on, as well.

    Otherwise, I have to admit, it'd be a bit of a wounding sentiment.
    PDXTai likes this.
  9. Jade303

    Jade303 Thaumaturge

    OK this seems to be getting a little out of control.*EDIT* Thank you Jarmo. My apologies DDD.

    It has been discussed before that it is not fair to only fight the GM opponents. It cheapens the game, and it makes it too easy to collect chests (and ratings).

    If you personally find that pvp is not your speed, then don't play. I don't think it's fair for someone to drop every game they're matched with a human opponent for any reason.
    You have my sympathy if you have trouble playing the game but I still don't think that anything can be done about it, and throwing games for that reason is unfortunately still wrong.
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2015
  10. Jarmo

    Jarmo Snow Griffin

    DunDunDun, I'd like to express my admiration for the eloquent and cogent way you express your thoughts and experiences. Hearing about the challenges you face every day I must say I could never have guessed your physical circumstances from your posts. You write better than most of us and for that alone you already have my respect.

    Jade, please read DunDunDun's post again more carefully. He did not describe autism like that.
    ParodyKnaveBob and CT5 like this.
  11. peonprop

    peonprop Thaumaturge

    I think the most elegant solution is to allow people to adjust time controls in casual matches. That way you can have as much time as you need to make your decisions playing against a human opponent, hopefully one that is patient. I would stick with the campaign for now. If you resign against non-gm opponents you will continually get Gary which is no more fun than playing the same module repeatedly.
  12. DunDunDun

    DunDunDun Thaumaturge

    You could be as autistic as I, and you still wouldn't have the right to be offended by my personal experiences with it. That's horribly disrespectful of you.

    Moreover, I never once associated my car accident induced SEVERE BRAIN DAMAGE, with my ATYPICAL NEUROPATHY.
    To make that sort of connection requires purposeful, vile-natured intent on the side of the person making the association.
    Or put to metaphor, it would be like me saying 'Cheese', and you screaming about how much you hate milk, and then then clarifying that cheese should never be associated with milk, because cheese is better.
    It doesn't matter what your past interactions with people have been that you expect those two things to be related, that you respond in the manner that you did is entirely unacceptable- just as much as the behaviors those people in question.

    Anyway, don't stress, I can't feel most emotions either [due to the brain damage, not the autism, juuuust to be clear]. So 'no aggro'.
    I just find it ironic that you started your post with the sentence you did.

    Ratings are obviously not an issue.
    And considering the NPC timer caps early on, I can't get past the third chest, sixth if I'm super lucky (only did it once), meaning I still compare horribly to anyone able to manage things.
    And of course, there's relative challenge.

    A lot of the issue here revolves around the fact that GM opponents were added in the first place, but in a manner somewhat contradictory to the rest of the PvP implementation.

    So, you're agreeing with me. Oddly hostile for that.
  13. DunDunDun

    DunDunDun Thaumaturge

    Be hard finding an opponent willing to do 40 minute matches, but I'm okay with that on my end. Though it'd mean I'd get just about as many runs in..

    That's unfortunately contradictory, given that I've had the campaign beat through for a long time now. Meaning it's all about playing the same modules, and for far less reward than PvP gives.

    My apologies for stepping into that realm in the first place, I should have just stuck to loot fairy and level 17 adventure farming-

    Or put another way, the hostility here is less than what I usually get in-game, especially if I try to explain my circumstances.

    Definitely leaning toward taking a break from the game altogether until more PvE content is added, at this point :X
  14. peonprop

    peonprop Thaumaturge

    I misunderstood your motives. Casual games give no rewards so they won't help your situation. Your best bet for getting loot is to join leagues but not play the matches.
    DunDunDun likes this.
  15. Bard of Prey

    Bard of Prey Orc Soldier

    I think we're wandering a bit off-topic here, but...

    Honestly, I would just play how you want and not worry about whether your opponent thinks you're taking too long.

    It's one of my least favourite things to see people whine about actually. MP matches have a time limit for a reason. That's plenty punishment for people taking longer to do their turns. It's just poor sportsmanship to berate people for taking 'too long' to play, regardless of their reasons. Not really anybody's business how somebody else plays as long as they're following the rules.

    Granted, if you find the time limit stressful anyway, I'm sure you could find some people to play casual matches from time to time, if only for something a bit more interesting than repeating campaign battles.
    ParodyKnaveBob, CT5, Merdis and 3 others like this.
  16. BlackVoidDeath

    BlackVoidDeath Guild Leader

    Is it ok to "Resign" in league matches - because my internet shuts off sometimes so i dont really "Resign" - hope i am allowed to do that.
  17. Jarmo

    Jarmo Snow Griffin

  18. DunDunDun

    DunDunDun Thaumaturge

    Yeah, I only learned about that very recently, basically completely swapped track to that.
    Since there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to when the tournies happen (that I'm aware of), it's not like I can reliably just log in each day and treat it as a daily login bonus.
    Playing the game for loot fairy is mildly interesting, since it swaps locations around, but refarming the same level 17 quests and keeping track of when the tourney signup slot is at, isn't really too compelling in the long run, on its own.

    None of my friends are interested in casual matches, so we've been biding our time till co-op campaign comes out, which should reasonably spice up things for a while. :)

    I'm so tempted to run an elven mage that only casts relocation spells [Gusts, Maze, Whirlwind, TK] just to annoy them.

    Positive side, with that scenario, we know for sure my toon will be the first to get killed off. The only question is, by whom!

    No, but really, looking forward to it. The constant 'yep, still working on it' comments the devs make when they do blog posts, post on the forums, or hop into game chat, is quite encouraging, and one of the reasons the devs here really stand out.
  19. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    It's every 10 hours, if you're talking about the leagues :)

    Seriously? Not asking as Blue Manchu but as principal of the Sorcererers. Are you for real, Huey? :confused:
  20. DunDunDun

    DunDunDun Thaumaturge


    Was Saturday an exception because of guild season? When does that exception occur?
    Can't speak for Huey specifically, but players tend to start getting antsy with me after about 20-30 seconds on a turn.
    First time I make a mistake and spend a few minutes rethinking things, they'll start getting hostile-toned.
    Take my own inherent stress over my mistakes, and compound that in, and, well, there's a reason I dropped PvP pretty early on :p

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