Summer Balance Discussion

Discussion in 'Testing' started by Flaxative, Jun 15, 2016.

  1. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    What if we leave FoA alone and give Searing Pain Firestorms instead?

    (I haven't actually tested the changed cards yet.)
  2. Valadilene

    Valadilene Lizardman Priest

    Shieldblock is now a pretty scary card in quickdraw.

    In centurion, one of the enemies had the card, bruteforcing it just made it show up again the next round. Definitely wasted alot of cards by not playing around it. Feels as invulnerable as forcefield, but the card is hidden. By the time I find it, well, it just triggered.

    In QD Dojo, with 2 wizards vs a warrior with shieldblock. Couldnt play the stalling tactics like slide/encumber to keep that enemy away and running was the best option. Hunted down the other teammembers and avoided the char with shieldblock as much as possible.

    It is not overpowered, but need to work around it. I feel like if the roll was kept at 3+, it'd still be a viable card.

    The card isn't as annoying in normal play. the deck is too diluted, and the items the card is on aren't all that impressive.

    *on a seperate note: I completed the centurion challenge but it was on the testserver and therefore not recorded :(
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2016
  3. Pawndawan

    Pawndawan Champion of Cardhuntria

    "Balanced" Shield Block makes Laser Block look quite over-valued. I quite like the above suggestion of keeping it 3+.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Valadilene likes this.
  4. Deepweed

    Deepweed Thaumaturge

    Wow, the fixes are very similar or identical to what I previously suggested or how I think I would have done the change.

    I agree, though, that a lot of these have repercussions in singleplayer. I also suspect that the values may be off and as a result some strategies will dominate even more. For instance, Elven Maneuvers is looking very weak with a draw depth of 2. This will be less of a bane for full wizard teams, but it may cause a shift that would favor the use of Martyr Blessing, which really lacks counterplay other than a.) hitting with few high-damage attacks which is not always possible/feasible and is ruined by blocks, b.) ignoring the target for two turns which is really frustrating, or c.) stack attachments which is often not possible without tilting card advantage. Some cards might need "monitoring" post-patch.

    The sprint changes seem spot-on! The change to Accelerate Time would be odd in practice, and I should probably check it out. I actually think the change hits non-Volcano AT decks really hard, and I'm not certain if it is really necessary. For instance, the common combo of using Wall Of Fire at the end of a turn and triggering it with Accelerate Time will no longer be possible at range 6 to 8 (which is generally the safe range against other wizards). The negatives of this change seem to outweigh the positives at the moment.

    This simple treatment for buffed burst is interesting. It still doesn't give an answer to old-fashioned Unholy Wellspring buffed burst 1 which is a concern as it still lacks counterplay. The Spreading Laser buff seems a bit unnecessary because the card is Silver- and is on Kroll's Laser Rifle (which will be the next big thing if Unholy Wellspring goes down).

    It's also interesting to see how fire is getting serious indirect nerfs all around because of the block changes and drakehide armors. A 2+ roll is very reliable. This also nerfs the currently rare radioactive terrain, though, and it might get even rarer with these changes.

    There's still no answer to the long range of Defender's Block, the extreme strength of Bless, and the (in my opinion) excessive healing of Inspiring Presence (which I believe should be nibbed down to 4). @Flaxative?

    I'll definitely give more feedback when I get around to testing this.
    esthkol likes this.
  5. rinco69

    rinco69 Thaumaturge

    Laser block looks overvalued next to any other block. Shield Block at 2+ makes sense when compared with plain old parry.
  6. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    I've always found Flash Of Agony to be too powerful for a paper card. Many of the best staves (many, not just Searing Pain) include this card so I'm glad to see it nerfed. When comparing new Shield Block with Laser Block it might seem too good now but actually rinco's last post is very accurate: it's Laser Block that's green (overvalued). New Shield Block is still equally good compared to Defender's Block.
  7. Valadilene

    Valadilene Lizardman Priest

    Yes, in comparison with parry and defender's block, known to be best in class, the new shield block is balanced. All your likes or dislikes about those two cards, they can now extend to shieldblock as well.

    What are your experiences with parry or defender's block in quickdraw? I find them frustrating to play against. Or strong when i have them. The draw-a-card mechanic is powerful in QD, and them triggering easily doesn't help at all. Unnerving strike against them is a frustrating experience.

    So: should parry/defender's block be nerfed, or buff all other blocks to their level of power?

    There has just been a complaint about defender's block 3 posts back.
    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.
  8. snickersimba

    snickersimba Goblin Champion

    A change I think we might be able to work in would be simply giving volcano a range limit. A faster fix for bless being absolutely broken would be to change it to work like healing beacon. Hitting everyone around the square as well. For me, elven manuvers would be best changed to:
    draw limit:four
  9. Master Goo

    Master Goo Ogre

    I'd also add +1 to roll for parry and defenders block, these changes will make blocks more balanced imo.
  10. Worphos

    Worphos Kobold

    Hello fellows!

    Shanomo and I spent some interesting time testing the new Elven Maneuvers.

    We set up two parties with 3 elves warriors and played a bunch of games to collect some stats about the efficiency of EM draws.

    Shanomo party had 7 steps/moves on each elf and he got:
    • hit 43 times and drew 16 cards = 37,2 %
    Worphos party had 10 steps/moves on each elf and got:
    • hit 33 times and drew 15 cards = 45,5 %
    We hope these results can help make better decisions about the changes.

    Would be very nice if other players could do something similar so we could check if they get similar results.
  11. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    I just have to mention that these probabilities can be calculated (or estimated through a simulation) with a lot less effort and a lot more precisely. Question is not what the exact drawing % is (it also matters when and what will you draw) - the question is whether the new EM is or is not too weak.
  12. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    At worst it's a cheap deck thinner. Imagine if there was a tokenless human skill that had Scouting Run, and two traits that had absolutely no effect other than replacing themselves. I'd be shocked if such an item didn't get play. Compared to what it was, EM got nerfed hard, but just looked at as it is proposed: a bronze trait with an occasional benefit, it's still good.
    Master Goo likes this.
  13. Master Goo

    Master Goo Ogre

    Yeah, it is, but im afraid dwarf fighters are becoming too much OP compared to others after rebalance. May be Blind Rage have to be tuned aswell.
  14. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    One of the other ways I see elven maneuvers being used is to cycle through other bad cards in your deck. You can draw and drop a traveling curse with this deck shuffler. You can draw and drop a raging strike. You can draw and drop thick hide strips...and get healed in the process.
    Macizo and Lord Feleran like this.
  15. Navas

    Navas Kobold

    After some tests I made, I think that Shield Block should be 3+.
  16. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    Or to make things complicated, Laser Block could be revalued and the items it's on worth readjusted accordingly.
    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.
  17. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    Is it that bad? You can get 3 Shield Blocks on one person tops. And when you do that, you have a Dropped Guard to worry about.
    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.
  18. Solip

    Solip Orc Soldier

    Laser block should be 4+. That's like a legit parry with a guaranteed attack draw. Shield Block must remain at it's current state, no changes imo. Catch arrow at 3+ is good, it was always a rare block whilst it was triggered for me. Overall...It's not a bad balance.
  19. Robauke

    Robauke Guild Leader

    Shield Block items are bad at the moment. Do we have to take into account there could be better ones coming? Even then, given there is Defenders Block at 3+ and other then laser block, shield block gives you a card from your own deck, i think it is fine where it is.
    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.
  20. snickersimba

    snickersimba Goblin Champion

    Just, don't change elven manuvers to a draw of two, thats too weak. Set it to three or four. I don't know how many times I have to say this, I have tested it.
    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.

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