Summer Balance Discussion

Discussion in 'Testing' started by Flaxative, Jun 15, 2016.

  1. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
  2. Christofff

    Christofff Guild Leader

    So good.

    Soo good. We talk, devs listen. Nuff said.
  3. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    Apparently they listen to everyone, but Rob.

    Now, after all these nerfs/buffs, the only thing that is untouched is everything Dwarven Warrior has. Blind Rage is still helluva undervalued on paper, their mobility problems is still answered by a Vibrant Pain and their tankiness is still present due to Reliable Mail. Their only semi-big nerfs are in Sprint, Team! and Icy Block. Their HP is still obnoxiously high, and now that burffft doesn't three-shot you without armor, it'll help them survive even longer.

    Oh, and Bless is still undercosted or Consegrated Ground is overcosted. Either or.
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
  4. Christofff

    Christofff Guild Leader

    Nerfing sprint makes wild run even better. Can't wait to try the new nerfed wiz robes once they've been tested and found worthy.
  5. Robauke

    Robauke Guild Leader

    Yeah, i would like to understand better why you bring forth only card changes, electroporter being the lone exception. And we all love our electroporter, so community butthurt doesnt seem to be the issue. What about changing more specific items? And with the maneuver nerf on our doorstep, what about bringing down those race hp differences?
    I'll refrain from any "armchair" assessments of the presented changes, but i like what i see.

    Also, no Test match logs this time around?
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
  6. Wandere

    Wandere Lizardman Priest

    Really excited to see how these mix things up. Playable Wyrmhides, playable Shield Block, and a less terrifying Maneuvers. I'm hyped. :D
    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.
  7. Brataccas

    Brataccas Kobold

    Some interesting changes there although my immediate thoughts were that I rarely see Flash of Agony in use at my lowly level (1100's) - the most common (and annoying) wizard tactics are the Volcano/Accelerate Time (Volcano should be line-of-sight only or limited range) and Fireball/Ember Burst + supporting traits (rarely Savage Curse since these are generally all-wizard teams). Also, in my experience Spreading/Scattering Laser were already plenty damaging as-is - not sure they needed a buff.

    Other than that, the changes look ok - the Accelerate Time nerf will hopefully see that less prevalent and I guess people won't be playing Flash any more (I have a couple in my deck but even as-is they're rarely used effectively because the setup and making sure your wizard isn't exposed is a PITA) - overall I can't see this changing the Volcano/Burfft spam much though.
  8. gulo gulo

    gulo gulo Guild Leader

    I suppose having 85 warpers isn't worth it anymore. Oh well...although maybe it would make Lava Pools more interesting, but then again, you can only have three max, so probably not. Maybe Acid Spray is more playable now. And Flash Flood is a pretty necessary card to go along with telekinesis now, I think, or Illusory Barrier. Arena Crescent becomes a death room for wizards now.

    That being said, very excited to see the changes to the wyrmhide and drakehide. Should be a godsend against radioactive priests.

    Probably the most excited about being able to actually consider my Repulsor Rayguns and Kroll's now, though. Muscle Through + Spreading Laser could be a fun combo for a couple of wizards to use.

    I hardly use Electroporter that much anymore, so I'm not too worried about that.
  9. snickersimba

    snickersimba Goblin Champion

    the elven manuvers nerf is too much, it shouldn't be two cards, thats WAY too weak. It does nothing most of the time with the changes presented, when it does trigger its the same. Just nerf the duration or let it draw three/four cards
    ParodyKnaveBob and GriffTheThief like this.
  10. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    So two things, one, we're mainly concerned with how the metagame shakes out at higher ratings; two, we expect burst attacks to remain problematic for the time being (albeit hopefully less so with the Savage Curse nerf) while we design counterplay to them in our next set.

    I expect playtest feedback to be based on games played, and for anyone submitting said feedback to me to explain how their feedback is based on those games. Basically, I don't need logs but I need folks to summarize their actually testing experiences. Hope that clears up your question.

    Changing race hp differences isn't something we're interested in doing right now. Besides elf priests the usage of race/class combinations is pretty healthy.

    And again, there are tons more changes we could make, but we are primarily interested in addressing what appear to be problems.

    Looking forward to your playtest reports, everyone :)
  11. Brataccas

    Brataccas Kobold

    Not meaning to be an armchair quarterback, since you're far more knowledgeable about the game than I am *but*

    Surely one of the big problems with the wizard stuff at the moment is that there's close to zero risk involved in using these tactics? Flash has unlimited range - burfft doesn't require LoS (likewise Volcano), some powerful additions like the lasers might as well have unlimited range and some of this stuff is crazy-buffable even without a priest.

    Adding 'counterplay' sounds like trying to treat the symptoms rather than the disease so-to-speak - to pull off attacks like these should require planning, a little luck and most importantly, risk - something that's largely absent at the moment - nerfing the range and/or LoS requirements on this stuff would go a long way to fixing it IMHO.

    When I first started playing Card Hunter it seemed that the most damaging wizard attacks required them to expose themselves to more danger (i.e. get closer to the battle) - that's no longer the case since they can hang back 8+ squares away from their targets and bombard them with high damage attacks.

    Hopefully the nature of the PvP maps is being considered too - I've noticed very few people using teleport on the current maps for example since they can't be abused as horrifically as the last set.
  12. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Don't worry, everything you're saying has already been considered :) What we need right now is testing of these changes while we work on new content, thanks!
  13. Brataccas

    Brataccas Kobold

    Well I've made my test account - just gotta rush through the first 5 levels :)
    Flaxative likes this.
  14. BlackVoidDeath

    BlackVoidDeath Guild Leader

    So do we get the 80 pizza on our test server account or live?
    Because I am not spending two hours killing myself with a buffed Flash of Agony for nothing :p
    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.
  15. Robauke

    Robauke Guild Leader

    ofc live. As in the past.

    The blog entry states a "couple of weeks" as testing time frame, can you say more, Mr. Flax?
  16. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    In an ideal world it would mean that July (which is about 2 weeks away) would begin with freshly balanced cards and items. In reality it might, of course, take more time.
  17. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    Of course: pizza rewards are for live accounts.

    We'd like to get as much playtest feedback on this set of changes within a couple weeks, e.g. 2 weeks, so that we can iterate if necessary before our mid-July release. Of course, the timeline can change depending on how the playtest goes, but that's the hope.
    BlackVoidDeath likes this.
  18. rinco69

    rinco69 Thaumaturge

    I need not test these changes to know they are all spot on. Kudos to the dev team. They truly understand both the game and the gamers.
    Dingding123 and Lord Feleran like this.
  19. GriffTheThief

    GriffTheThief Orc Soldier


    I fully agreed with Snickersimba here! You took too hard on Elven Maneuvers. If you choose to carry on this nerf, you'll be changing it (IMHO) into a nearly useless/unplayable card.
    Long ago I voiced in the Multiplayer lobby chat that EM's duration should be 2 rounds instead of 3. You could reduce its duration to 2 and let it draw 4 cards, instead of only 2.

    - In my opinion, no card duration should be higher than 2 rounds. I always had this opinion until you introduced Doom card, which creates a problem with this opinion of mine, but since DOOM isn't being subjected to any rule's change, let's keep it out of discussion now please :D
    - I pretty much liked all others changes, but I don't understand the keyword KEEP in the new Savage's Curse.
    Last edited: Jun 16, 2016
  20. realm151

    realm151 War Monkey

    change to flash of agony's mechanics seems a bit overly punishing for single player, making staff of pain, painful flashstaff, mindsplinter staff, and staff of misanthrope nearly unplayable on lower levels (particularly on elven wizards)

    feels like the change to flash of agony was directed specfically at searing pain in a MP context, but has the consequence of making a whole slew of other staves less usable, both in SP and MP

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