PVP Balancing

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by KiraNis, Aug 4, 2015.

  1. KiraNis

    KiraNis Kobold

    ok real tired of losing in leauge because you litterly don't have a way to win.

    The random draws make it bad enough but when your playing 3 dwarves vs all the mages who somehow managed to draw every slide push and teleport card in the game why should I even play it's not a mesure of my skill it's aggravating as all **** knowing you can't do anything aginst them while they control the board because the only attack they have that dos not completly send me backwards is force blast

    Remove Random Classes/Races From league either make it the same for both sides or give us a way to pick right now all league is is luck not skill that and knowing how bull**** certain card combos are again certain setups.


    Yes I brought as much movement as i was able didin't help didin't get stone feet or similar cards either

    Otherwise there does need to be some serious consideration on how to handle PVP id be fine with it if it was casual but the game/YOU want us to do it considering ranking the prizes and it's the only way to level renown after a point unless you buy expansions

    I don't care how long it takes I just want it acknowledged as an issue that you will eventually even if it takes years fix.
     
  2. Obernoob

    Obernoob Hydra

  3. KiraNis

    KiraNis Kobold

    Random Draw don't reply if you have no intention of reading the message
     
  4. Sir Veza

    Sir Veza Farming Deity

    If you'd called it Quick Draw (or QD) I think he'd have understood what you were talking about.
    For starters, I'm not a dev, so I have no say on any changes. Skip this if you like.
    Quick Draw is very random, and you can get shafted before you play your first card. So can your opponent. Skill is a factor, but luck dominates these leagues. Leagues were intended to be "just for fun" from the outset, as opposed to ranked play which actually affects rating. QD is very popular, so major changes seem unlikely to me. If it really bothers you, perhaps you should avoid them. Or maybe you could try again and get matched against me when I get 3 priests, and a total of 1 attack card.
     
    Rainingrecon likes this.
  5. Obernoob

    Obernoob Hydra

    Getting matched against me is also not bad. I tend to get elf mages at chess madness against a party full of warriors.
     
  6. karadoc

    karadoc Hydra

    I would not say that luck dominates in Quick Draw. Obviously there is luck involved, but there is also a lot of strategy - both in the card picks and in the way it is played.

    Quick Draw is one of my favourite league modes; and looking back at my league records, my wins/losses are:
    4/0 ; 4/0 ; 4/0 ; 3/1 ; 4/0 ; 3/1

    With that kind of record I think it's fair to say that either I'm tremendously lucky, or my experience as a player has allowed me to overcome the luck involved in the league (ie. it isn't dominated by luck).

    In any case, as I said, I really like Quick Draw. The only big problem with it from my point of view is that the picking phase takes too long. It would be much better if both players could pick at the same time! (But I've been told that would be difficult to implement.)
     
    Rainingrecon likes this.
  7. orian34

    orian34 Orc Soldier

    Also, don't forget that during the card choices, you can see what the opponent discarded. A nice thing to plan further :p
     
  8. VDZ

    VDZ Kobold

    Yeah, I'm often a bit annoyed by the random race/class distribution as well.

    Why can't we just draft the characters instead? Generate 6 random characters as is done now, but instead have players take turns picking one of the 6 characters to add to their team. That would ensure much more balanced teams (assuming players with equal skill).

    Perhaps they were initially intended as just for fun alternate mode, but they have become a rather significant feature of Card Hunter. Surely there can be a competitive alternative to playing the same decks in ranked over and over again (perhaps alongside more luck based leagues)?
     
  9. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    I think it's fairest to say that's not significant data...

    Because that would be a lot of work for our <2-man team.
     
    DunDunDun likes this.
  10. Xayrn

    Xayrn Hydra

    We may not be able to draft characters, but everything is already in place for a quick draw mode where we choose our own team composition. Any thoughts on giving 'quickDrawUseParty' a test run next rotation, @Flaxative?
     
  11. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader Staff Member

    We could try some quickDrawUseParty leagues in the future.
     
  12. KiraNis

    KiraNis Kobold


    Steps in the right direction are welcome though this probally has been discussed

    How hard is it to force the game to give each player the same team at the very least? the main problem is the mode is the imbalance that comes with a ****ty race/class combination that the other person can exploit for an easy win (see mages murdering dwarves with force spells)

    I mean the problem will lessen as more cards are added (less likely to draw every force card) but still.
     
  13. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    My suggestion has always been "no duplicate races or classes on a team". This would, among other things, give both sides exactly 75 total HP.
     
    Obernoob, KiraNis, Xayrn and 2 others like this.
  14. orian34

    orian34 Orc Soldier

    And that's a suggestion i support a LOT! It would add a more lot balance to the game
     
  15. KiraNis

    KiraNis Kobold

    All of my yes.
     
  16. karadoc

    karadoc Hydra

    I would not like this. Although it would reduce the chance of unfair racial matchups, it would also drastically reduce amount of strategy that goes into the deck-building phase, and the variety in how the matches are played. If every team is 1-1-1 then there would less biases to take into account in the deck-building. Choosing cards would be reduced from a complex and interesting decision, to just a basic hierarchy.

    Here are a couple of examples to help describe what I mean:
    • If I see that the enemy team has lots of wizards, then I can conclude that Parry is useless; Defensiveness is very good (because the wizards are unlikely to get right up close to me); Combustible is particularly risky... etc
    • If I see that the enemy team has lots of warriors, then I can conclude that Parry is superb; Force Bolt and other push cards can be useful defensively; Resistant Hide is not useful... if I have lots of warriors too, then mobility is less important (because the enemy will come to me); and if I don't have warriors, then Flash Flood is very powerful.
    I can think of heaps of examples of when my card choices depends very strongly on what classes the enemy team has. It's a major part of the strategy of deck building in Quick Draw. If every team was 1-1-1, that part of the game would be gone, and the game would be far shallower than it currently is.


    So although I agree that some matches are a bit unbalanced by the choice of characters, I don't think that's anywhere near a big enough problem to resort to the solution suggested. Making every team 1-1-1 would take away a large part of what makes the game good, just to fix a small part of what makes some matches unbalanced.
     

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