Passing the Baton

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Jon, Dec 22, 2020.

  1. Frostguard

    Frostguard Thaumaturge

    Actually, all very good points, @doublequartz. I would only comment on one of them specifically, and that's regarding wizards. Mainly also because the issue's been on my mind lately. The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced that wizards could use a pretty big overhaul, in several ways, and I've actually touched on the topic in other threads on other tangents.

    One thing about wizards is that arcane item slots are abundant, and the number of available arcane items is high, but so very few of them are actually any good. Basically your two choices as of now are using them for burning cards (don't get me wrong, I fully approve of this) and spamming Telekinesis. That's basically it. In some leagues where wizards come up and/or there are chokepoints, spamming Illusory Barrier can be added to the list (I personally believe that Illusory Barrier also does a little too much for its quality, especially laughable in comparison with Illusory Wall, but let's not go there right now). That's pretty much it. Most of the arcane items are just riddled with cards that are almost entirely useless in multiplayer. Much in line with what doublequartz said, notice that every burning card that's worth half a penny, Telekinesis, and Illusory Barrier are all rare. Basically, if you're not bringing a fire wizard, you pretty much have to fill up a third of your wizard's deck with Telekinesis (or Gusts of War if you can spare the tokens) or just downright horrible cards. This leads to repetitive play patterns, and wizards being all too similar to each other across different parties and games.

    I think that Telekinesis spam is also symptomatic of something else, but it's a much more systemic problem with the game. Namely, in similar games (I know I've brought this up before in another thread), part of the roles of warriors is to protect wizards. You can see some mechanics aimed at this, such as zones of control, but between the ease and accessibility of Nimble Strike, Vengeance, Vanguard, and their friends, in practice non-wizard characters are typically completely powerless to do this. Basically wizards need to rely on Telekinesis spam to stay alive, which is also not a very nice place to be, and just like before, it results in a lack of options for players and an honestly frustrating repetitive nature to the game.

    Don't get me wrong, I'm not lamenting that the option exists, but that it seems to be a necessity, or pretty much the only option out there, other than some very niche roles in leagues. I'm aware that it's a delicate balanace that can very easily go wrong, but I'm hoping it can get addressed in some way. Wizards could be very interesting with a few more viable options.

    Don't hurt pyromancers, though, in fact we could get some nice viable (that is, non-Arcane Skill) items with Scorching Rays. Come on, the card's not nearly good enough to warrant amethyst quality, it doesn't need bad itemization to boot.
  2. Maniafig

    Maniafig Thaumaturge

    How exactly is competitive defined here? I'm assuming that it's still possible to make it to around 1500 elo using a warrior-focused peasant build, which is high enough for me to count as competitive. I'm always wary of implications that the opposite is true, since that's a common (IMO fallacious) argument that people make when calling CH P2W.

    Otherwise I agree that more peasant accessibility for Priests and especially Wizards would be good. I wouldn't even know where to start when making a peasant Wizard, lots of Runestones, I guess, but then Terrain's pretty bad in MP nowadays. I'm wondering whether it'd be better to introduce new cards in the Arcane Item slot, or overhaul current unplayably bad common cards in the slot. If Boo! got an overhaul that's both playable AND doesn't make me want to defenestrate my PC we'd suddenly have a ton of good low-rarity Arcane Items.
  3. doublequartz

    doublequartz Lizardman Priest

    From my experience, peasant warriors can't beat the ubiquitous blessed werewolves. That may or may not make them non-competitive, but it certainly throws them out of the current metagame.

    Bejeweled Shortsword and Double-Edged Sword is the two good common weapons, both suited for quick kills. They have undeniably high damages, but against an armored and healing warrior, you're still going to need multiple character worth of attacks. To land all of that, you'd have to outmaneuver them. This is hard.

    Nimble Strike, Vengeance, Vanguard as mentioned are good, but it's not because you can use them to get past the opponent's defense and reach enemy wizards. If you're not risking death when you're jumping in between enemies, then you're not risking death in any circumstance, and you're already winning anyway.

    These cards are good because you can use them to get out of whatever danger. These card lets one escape even if they're trapped in enemy's ZOC, and having more moves is the only answer to them. 2 Step attacks each on the good common weapons just can't chase down mobile opponent without lucky draws, and the wounded enemy nearly always makes it back at 20+ health.

    Blocking Mace on the other hand has enough Parries to stay in Victory squares and survive. It can potentially give you win by VP. But in practice, a blocking warrior can't get there to begin with.

    Though they're unpopular this month, Wizards tend to consist the rest of what you should prepare for. They usually have True Silver, Instant Snowman or Heartripper, and spams TK so that they can pummel you down to death. Sticky Slipper is technically not peasant, but even if we allowed that, they still have a good chance at stalling you long enough and winning the damage race.

    True competitive build IMO is ones that can answer the majority of current metagame, and get you anywhere between 1500 and 1800+ depending on your skill.
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
  4. Sir Veza

    Sir Veza Farming Deity

    Might I suggest these posts are better suited for the Feedback & Suggestions forum?
    Keep the topic tight (Peasant Build evaluation and suggestions, for example), and start a different thread for a different or more specific topic.
    In a thread this long your points may be passed over, and be quite difficult to find again if searched for.
  5. Taikun

    Taikun Kobold

    Very nice! Let´s go :)
  6. Auburn

    Auburn Guild Leader

    Is there still a possible web version on the way?
    Flaxative and Stexe like this.

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