Ozyola's Oddments #5 Results and Peer Feedback

Discussion in 'Card Hunter General Chat' started by Pawndawan, Mar 19, 2017.

  1. Pawndawan

    Pawndawan Champion of Cardhuntria

    You can post on this thread to give feedback about OO #5 submissions. Remember to be constructive and nice, Ozyola's Oddments is purely a fun social forum event.

    I will announce Ozyola's pick on Friday 31st March. I plan to launch OO #6 around that time as well.

    List of OO #5 submissions for feedback:
    Dire-bolical Dagger by @adajon
    Stubborn Adaptability by @Fanturluche
    Caffeinated Celerity by @Maniafig
    Terrifying Staff of Terror by @BlackVoidDeath
    Hand of Doom by @seth arue
    Perdurable Plates by @Killer74
    Fool's Gold by @Gingrich Yurr
    Shieldcracker by @hello world
    Piece of Red Cloth by @00Banshee00
    Whipoff by @timeracers
    Magikarp's Rapidity by @Lucky Dice
    The Back Biter by @think_panther
    Suicidal Scythe by @wavy
    Sizeable Pick of Boundless Rage by @Frostguard
    The Worm by @Super4011
    The Penetrator by @Rohndil
    Padawan's Sabre by @Vacuity
    Biotic Rifle by @Maloqi
    Impulsive Footwork by @bigpotato
    Forgetful Farmer's Flashfire by @tolkien
    seth arue and Maniafig like this.
  2. SceoMyntan

    SceoMyntan Fire Demon

    I voted for only one submission, @Frostguard's Sizeable Pick of Boundless Rage. The weapon builds upon Oversized Pick, an old least favorite. Like its classic counterpart, Sizeable Pick is an item that's not only not worth playing, but that I'd be afraid to have in my build.

    I also appreciate @Fanturluche's Stubborn Adaptability for its tight anti-synergy. This design is crafted with expert irony. However I just can't say it's the worst legendary if it offers two decent armors that can simply be chosen between during discard.
  3. Maniafig

    Maniafig Thaumaturge

    Whoo, another OO done! The worst legendary theme is interesting, Legendaries have a reputation for being either amazing or garbage and their scarcity makes their (lack of) merit feel all the stronger.

    Dire-bolical Dagger by adajon: A lot has been said about Penetrating Stab's value relative to Impaling Stab, and likewise Perforating Strike and Sundering Strike have a huge disparity in power relative to their quality disparity, so this item is clearly outclassed. That said, the goal of the contest is to make the worst possible legendary, so a level 16 item feels out of place since a level 14 item would cost as much while being potentially weaker. The "Dire-bolical" pun is also lost on me since the penetrating theme doesn't really suggest direness to me.

    Stubborn Adaptability by Fanturluche: This item reminds me a lot of Unholy Conduit, an item that has a very poor internal synergy but also gives unique access to a very powerful card in that slot. The anti-synergy between Adaptable and Antimagic Skin is obvious and clever, but Adaptable is a potential game-changer, a card that trivialises some SP modules, and I'm not convinced an item with Adaptable can ever be classified as terrible. Stylishly bad as an item but much less bad in a deck as a whole I'd say. The item also has a clever name, it follows the Dwarvish flavour very well and the name implies a stubborn unwillingness to adapt though Antimagic Skin.

    Caffeinated Celerity
    by Maniafig: If you've been around for a long time then you might remember a time when Elf Skills were plagued with cards it didn't need, generic move cards such as Dash and Run that give Elves more of what they don't need. Triple Energizing Move is that principle taken to its extreme, giving Elves more of what they don't need for the steep price of a yellow token when an item like Cautious Mobility exists. I thought of a few names before settling with the final one, it feels like it suits the card's effect and art.

    Terrifying Staff of Terror
    by BlackVoidDeath: A lot has been said about Boo!'s quality, both in its overpowered pre-nerfed form and its underpowered nerfed form. This staff takes the current underpowered nature of the card and runs with it. It's a very obvious staff and it's got an equally obvious name. While I'm sure the laziness is partly tongue-in-cheek, it doesn't make the item very inspiringly bad either. Boo! is also more of an Arcane Item card and there's no precedent for this many copies of the card on one item.

    Hand of Doom
    by seth arue: Doom is an oddball card, it's an all-or-nothing card taken to the extreme, with an incredibly powerful effect which has a high chance to never occur. Doom's value in MP is highly debatable, but the card has proven itself in SP against bosses, making this item a boss-killing machine and disqualified for being anywhere near the worst legendary. It's just way too good, in certain highly specific situations! :p

    Perdurable Plates
    by Killer74: Everlasting Ground is in a weird place, it requires a very specific sort of deck to be of much use. That said, the item's uniqueness of providing two copies of the card and potential hilarity with a Rad Spray deck or synergies with Illusory Barriers/Blesscano keeps me from considering it outright bad.

    Fool's Gold
    by Gingrich Yurr: Consecrate Ground is Bless' unloved smaller sibling, a card wholly outclassed in its own value range, while Soothing Darkness is a case of the upside being questionable relative to the downside and the ease of use of Greater Heal. That said, the item is level 21 suggesting potential to make the item overall worse and it doesn't follow the Divine Weapon rules.

    by hello world: Kinda confused by this one, Unnerving Strike is a legit good card and the rest of the cards aren't so bad either and don't follow much of a theme. The item's also not optimized for being bad looking at its level.

    Piece of Red Cloth
    by 00Banshee00: Please give me a copy of this item because it's downright good.

    by timeracers: I've argued against Laser Whip in the past, but I don't think it's a bad card anymore after using Zoltan's Laser Scourge. This item relies on Laser Whip being a bad card, and since I don't think it I can't consider it to follow the month's theme. I do like the design however, it has a sleek min-maxed feel, but that's the sort of design philosope I associate with good rather than bad items.

    Magikarp's Rapidity
    by Lucky Dice: Uh-oh, what's Ozyola's take on copyright? :eek: The Leaps are perfect fits for this item, fitting Magikarp's flavour and weakness, but the Fleet doesn't seem like it suits the Magikarp theme in either flavour or badness. A fun submission.

    The Back Biter
    by think_panther: The second item to go for the dubious legendary status of five commons and solitary rare. While I admit it's a bad item and the name fits the item, the design feels rather boring and obvious to me, and I'm not sure whether the item would have been worse off with 5 Weak Strikes instead. Huh, why didn't anyone submit "The Weakarm" anyway?

    Suicidal Scythe
    by wavy: Four cantrip attacks? Give me a copy of this item please!

    Sizeable Pick of Boundless Rage
    by Frostguard: Another Visual Basic item, it uses five Raging Strikes which are genuinely bad and tops it off with a Blind Rage which can lead to a lot of pain with all those Raging Strikes, but the design also feels very obvious. The reference to Oversized Pick is clever but it also highlights that the two share a lot of cards.

    The Worm
    by Super4011: Is Mind Worm a bad card? The answer to that question determines this item's quality. On the one hand it's a very indirect card, on the other it can be a potent discard effect for its quality. I'm indecisive, really, so the item can't be the worst legendary around.

    The Penetrator
    by Rohndil: Another Visual Basic item!! This time Penetrating Bolt is the clearly overvalued card and paired with Melt Armor. Penetrating Bolt is a kinda boring card, and Melt Armor doesn't really suit any theme, the card isn't really penetrating itself.

    Padawan's Sabre
    by Vacuity: Laser Thrust is very good, Trip is very bad. But using four Laser Thrusts and two Trips is another case of very bad internal synergy which can be mitigated in a full deck. This item's just too powerful in a handicap-mitigation deck to be anywhere near the worst. The name made me think of Pawndawan.

    Biotic Rifle
    by Maloqi: Please don't give this to my enemies when I run step attacks!

    Impulsive Footwork
    by bigpotato: Hey, another Elf Skill! A tokenless approach to the "more of what Elves don't need" idea, giving elves high movement options at a price when they already draw a Dash every turn anyway, with a thematic name. I overlooked this one the first time, I think the Dangerous Maneuevers are too good to be on a worst item, more focus on Wild Runs would have fit better I think.

    Forgetful Farmer's Flashfire
    by tolkien: Another case of internal-antisynergy that is mitigated in a whole deck. Seems like an SP farming tool, it's even in the name! But the Impetuous Blast kinda does the design in for me, the card doesn't follow the hurting yourself theme and doesn't belong on a non-sentient weapon.

    Making an item which is as bad as it can be wound up being more difficult and interesting than I had anticipated. Some people made items that poorly synergize internally but may still be good in a deck as a whole, some that just don't do what you want an item of that type to do and some which just tack on as many bad common/uncommon cards as possible with a rare tossed in. To be honest I think the Visual Basic exception should not have been made since the items it led to weren't very inspiring and it felt like low-hanging fruit, part of the fun to me was finding an assortment of ill-fitted rare cards, being able to just take 5 copies of traditionally bad cards and putting on a Rare feels a bit like cheating.

    I probably was also overly picky in this feedback! It's easier to be picky in reviews when an item needs to be thematic but also has to be of a certain power level, like OO1's OP item theme. Reviewing bad items feels even harder than reviewing amazing ones since it's easier to find upsides to terrible items and downsides to perfect ones, or to disagree on a card's total lack of merit.

    Looking forwards to OO6!
  4. Rohndil

    Rohndil Hydra

    As a previous winner I feel obliged to provide my invaluable feedback in the form of unfunny one-liners. The tiny boot ([​IMG] ) means I've branded the item as bad both for campaign and PvP. I'll steal @Maniafig's format because it's nice to read and I'm lazy.

    Dire-bolical Dagger by adajon: Good for stabbing stuff I guess, though the lack of simmetry in the blades mildly bothers me.
    Stubborn Adaptability by Fanturluche: Cool name and horrible item, but still your only way of packing 2 Adaptable in a deck.
    Caffeinated Celerity by Maniafig: Invaluable in getting that VP first! [​IMG]
    Terrifying Staff of Terror by BlackVoidDeath: GG EZ. [​IMG]
    Hand of Doom by seth arue: Everyone loves a doomed dragon.
    Perdurable Plates by Killer74: The floor is lava! I'd actually use this on extreme terrains build.
    Fool's Gold Gingrich Yurr: Despite being in cool OO and not in stuffy AA I can't help but scream INVALID SUBMISSION. [​IMG]
    Shieldcracker by hello world: This is a perfectly usable weapon.
    Piece of Red Cloth by 00Banshee00: This is a perfectly usable shield.
    Whipoff by timeracers: Love the pun name and the chance for both laser overkill and crippling failure. [​IMG]
    Magikarp's Rapidity by Lucky Dice: Hilariously bad and also you won't get a better item by leveling up to 20. No effect! [​IMG]
    The Back Biter by think_panther: GG EZ (2). [​IMG]
    Suicidal Scythe by wavy: Despite Trip and the potential to brutally murder your elven party members on turn 1 this is great for cycling.
    Sizeable Pick of Boundless Rage by Frostguard: GG EZ (3). Nice reference. [​IMG]
    The Worm by Super4011: Dennis Rodman was great, this item is not. Still MIGHT have some situational use and is the cheaper Mind Worm's weapon around.
    Padawan's Sabre by Vacuity: This isn't the legendary weapon you're looking for. Move along.
    Biotic Rifle by Maloqi: I might be wrong, but don't divine weapons need at least one melee attack? That said, this can be useful.
    Impulsive Footwork by bigpotato: If you don't want to spend a major token on Caffeinated Celerity this skill is for you! [​IMG]
    Forgetful Farmer's Flashfire by tolkien: While I totally support FoA/Firestorm farming this item will probably turn your dwarven wizards into fertilizer in a flash. [​IMG]

    All of the above in good fun, cheers to everyone who participated!
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  5. hello world

    hello world Hydra

    Dire-bolical Dagger by @adajon : This feels pretty terrible indeed, the comparision with Flashing Longspear is funny and both cards usually perform way worse than another card of their rarity(respectively strong hack and impaling stab), only negative is that The Perforator plays in a similar space.
    Stubborn Adaptability by @Fanturluche I'd gladly buy this item from the shop, but I'm not really in love with reliable mail, so I might be biased.
    Caffeinated Celerity by @Maniafig Pretty hilarious, I guess it could help reaching the center of CPU, but it still looks overkill
    Terrifying Staff of Terror by @BlackVoidDeath Maybe a little too much on the nose, but I appreciate that it could ver well be something made before the boo nerf and the frost attack would make a lot of sense with that in mind to stop the target from getting away.
    Hand of Doom by @seth aruethe other cards on the doom divine item are bad enough that this doesn't really suggest uselessness, still I could see myself being pretty annoyed that this is a legend.
    Perdurable Plates by @Killer74Keeping blesses and smoke alive in sp might be nice for a couple of modules and it tickes the deckbuilder in me a little too much
    Fool's Gold by @Gingrich Yurrsecret control wizard tech, even if now that purge doesn't ignore buffs anymore it is less useful, might be synergistic with accel. time if for some reason you don't want to use the divine item slots for blesses(planning to pack 3 Sparks Of Undeath maybe?) but still pretty groan inducing.
    Shieldcracker by @hello world Was aiming at a Bohemian Ear Spoon kind of legendary that gives decentish cards with no particular sinergy at an high price, and choose range 1 block removers for sick antisinergy with laser whip(fun fact, all items with laser whip offer at least one way to reposition yourself),plus 2 bad cards on a double gold token item that are a pretty meh follow up to unnerving, not really sure of why anyone would use it tbh, except maybe vs. big figures with blocks?
    Piece of Red Cloth by @00Banshee00 an usually better Shield Of The Tumbler. I'm not in love with disorienting due to felling pretty bad if the first roll fails, but it still be ok for some builds.
    Whipoff by @timeracers I like how 4 hard to deploy laser weapons increase the painfulness of drained battery, usually one of the drawbacks you hope to get with whip, and that whip being clunky to deploy means that fumble is more likely to discard it or at least a move that could be used to leave your personal lava pool after connecting with whip(or to connect with whip). Still it might be good enough thanks to the two cycling cards.
    Magikarp's Rapidity by @Lucky Dice Lovable, a Yellow token can already get you better ways to fly in other slots and the trait isn't that good with the two leaps.
    The Back Biter by @think_panther makes you wonder how it got made in the first place.
    Suicidal Scythe by @wavy Six cicling cards for tokenless and a way to discard the Attacks beforehand if I fear the ouch? this seems pretty good, if not for every map.
    Sizeable Pick of Boundless Rage by @Frostguard Second best damage output at tokenless after the legendary The Strongarm and compared to Blazing Shortsword this is less painful when paired with firestorm, if you can unload the Attacks before the mage unloads. I think this might be useful for some low level modules if you don't have enough strongarms. 7+2 is even the goblin's healt.
    The Worm by @Super4011 The ratio seems pretty good if you really want to get a lot of mind worm for a single token and spend the rest of the slots somewhere else, especially since you can't get 3 mind Worms with a token, so I'm not sure about this. Part of the shroud badness is that there are an unholy energy item and an accelerated thought item with 2 mind Worms too.
    The Penetrator by @Rohndil pair with a reliable mail, war cry and flash floods to kill the White dragon in 1 hp mode? seems pretty bad anyway.
    Padawan's Sabre by @VacuityThe drained battery issue is still there, this offers you an easier time controlling the power with antimagic skin and purge tho. not completely sold since it might also pair well with elvish maneuvers.
    Biotic Rifle by @Maloqi I could see this having an use.
    Impulsive Footwork by @bigpotato Nice, Wild Trickery is almost always better , but it is a legendary and no other items allows a wild run in a non-boot slot for no token, still that's a pretty niche need so I'd say it is bad enough.
    Forgetful Farmer's Flashfire by @tolkienEven better than misanthrope at "accidentally" Killing slow coop partners, and you can just reset if you find a first turn mind leak. It doesn't seem that awful.
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017
  6. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    Divine Weapons rules from my guide:
    • Required to have at least 1/3 melee attacks (including unholy melee attacks)
    • Require to have at least 1/6 Divine Item cards.
    • Required to have at least 5/6 melee attacks and Divine Item cards.
    • Some blocks are allowed: Parry type blocks, Unreliable Block, Lifesaving Block, Lucky Charm, and Shifting Block.
    Divine Items from the same guide:
    • Required to have 1/1 holy cards, unholy cards, and radiation cards.
    Yep the item isn't following the guidelines set forth by this guide. Likewise with Fool's Gold.
    Rohndil likes this.
  7. Lots of the submissions are pretty good to have, especially in SP.

    IMHO this was one of the hardest OO for the simple reason that none of the above submissions can even compare to items like Golden Wings or Ring Of Bifurcated Healing.

    @Maniafig Weak Strike can at least let you check for blocks without hitting yourself :)
    SceoMyntan likes this.
  8. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    But mitigating self damage is easy, especially now that Monstrous Hide has become available preventing 100% of the self inflicted damage leaving you with a weak strike of +2. I previously tried to make a good item with backbiting strike because the card isn't bad for its price.
  9. MathuranF

    MathuranF Lizardman Priest

    while The Back Biter looks terrible as an item to use on paper, I do like the synergy on it that you can put yourself from the yellow hps into the reds in order to make your wounded block more likely to work, don't know if the design was made with that in mind, but it's pretty neat.
  10. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    Sometimes things that look bad in theory are bad in practice, in this case the item is terrible because of the level of the item.
  11. Yes, there is a synergy but it wasn't the reason I used the specific card. The reason is that it's the worst rare Block card.
  12. Vacuity

    Vacuity Ogre

    Shamelessly stealing other people's format, I figure there's no harm in providing my own feedback:

    Dire-bolical Dagger by @adajon : Very underpowered for the token cost, but perhaps just very poor rather than genuinely awful.

    Stubborn Adaptability by @Fanturluche This one made me laugh when I saw it; wonderfully terrible internal synergy, but actually, this might well be a very useful item as you only have to put up with the awfulness for one turn maximum before you can discard whichever card of the really very useful cards is less useful to you.

    Caffeinated Celerity by @Maniafig When I first looked, I didn't pay attention to the slot and thought to myself these aren't *that* bad for a pair of boots. Err. Ouch. Bad, and I'm glad I started playing long enough ago to get the joke.

    Terrifying Staff of Terror by @BlackVoidDeath Funny, I guess hopeless in MP, but... could it be useful in some SP levels? Maybe?

    Hand of Doom by @seth arue This would be very useful in some SP modules.

    Perdurable Plates by @Killer74 While I'd have to see it in action to be sure, this seems very useful to me for SP farming.

    Fool's Gold by @Gingrich Yurr I agree with the other posters about questioning how this is a Divine Weapon, but putting that aside; not really worth the double major token cost, but still potentially helpful in SP farming (yes, I do mostly play SP)

    Shieldcracker by @hello world I understand that the otherwise good anti-block cards in no way synergise with the laser whips, but in no way is this genuinely awful.

    Piece of Red Cloth by @00Banshee00 Disorienting Block is pretty questionable at gold to me, but that doesn't make this a bad item to me.

    Whipoff by @timeracers If Timeracers hadn't posted it first, this is pretty much the item I would have posted. All credit to Timeracers for spotting the poor internal synergy of all-laser weapons and then combining it with the most awkward to use of laser attacks. This item would be head-smackingly frustrating to use.

    Magikarp's Rapidity by @Lucky Dice Nice lack of synergy between the trait and the moves, and the end result is going to be much too expensive in token cost for how useful it's likely to be.

    The Back Biter by @think_panther Good choice in the sense that a warrior is probably better off not equipping anything at all rather than equipping these. On the other hand, with the right deck, say Stubborn Adaptability, perfectly playable.

    Suicidal Scythe by @wavy Six traits? Talk about deck-shortening! In MP, a disaster I'm sure, in quite a few SP modules, this would be hilariously OP.

    Sizeable Pick of Boundless Rage by @Frostguard I like the horrendous synergy of Blind Rage and Raging Strike, and the reference to Oversized Pick. Unfortunately Blind Rage does push the damage output of those attacks to a point where they can one shot some lower level SP enemies, which makes it playable with care.

    The Worm by @Super4011 Potentially useful on some SP modules, I think.

    The Penetrator by @Rohndil Penetrating Bolt is overpriced at silver to me, and has no synergy with Melt Armor. Basically very, very poor, but not really unplayable?

    Padawan's Sabre by @Vacuity I'm glad some other people spotted the drained battery problem of having only laser attacks. Still, I'll hold up my hand and admit that in a well-made party with some means of removing the trip, this would be pretty powerful for its token cost.

    Biotic Rifle by @Maloqi Too many Entangling Roots? But still, this could be really fun in some SP modules. Maybe also fun for annoying people on some league maps?

    Impulsive Footwork by @bigpotato Another Elf Skill loaded with moves? Sign me up for not wanting this.

    Forgetful Farmer's Flashfire by @tolkien Mind Leak's a suitable awful trait to pair with these cards, but for someone who didn't have a better farming staff, it'd still be useful.

    From all of this, I have learnt that it's actually really hard to make legendaries that are genuinely terrible in all circumstances. You can make an item with awful internal synergy, but the party deck as a whole can probably be adjusted to make up for it. You can pick cards which are overpriced and lack any synergy, but then the item is just weak, rather than an outright hazard to put it in your deck. And a legendary that would be of very limited use in MP may be exceedingly useful in certain SP modules due to the varied challenges being faced.
  13. Pawndawan

    Pawndawan Champion of Cardhuntria

    Thanks for all participants and extra thanks to all who took their time to write peer feedback! :)

    Yeah, if I ever decide to run this theme again, I'm going to restrict submissions to actual legendaries only.

    I don't have much to add to the thorough feedback. In a way, this reminded a bit of OO #1, althought everything I said back then should be inverted for OO #5.

    I expected tokenless and minor token items to be even worse than major token items, since spending a major token or two on a item limits rest of the deck choices.

    Like many have said earlier, it was quite tricky to design a legendary item, which would be bad in all situations. For most submissions, I could think a scenario that would make the item quite useful.

    The OO #5 winners!

    The community poll was really close and in the end the winner got only one vote more than the runner ups.

    @Frostguard's Sizeable Pick of Boundless Rage (level 5 Epic Weapon, tokenless)


    This actually isn't a legendary item, since the "Visual Basic" exception was only for 5x common items + 1x rare item. Nevertheless, it was the community favourite and quite bad item, so the top spot is earned. :).

    The item art is Sharpened Pick with some blood stains and some other menacing recolours.


    @Lucky Dice's Magikarp's Rapidity (level 18 Legendary Elf Skill, (majortoken))


    Being fish out of water must feel awkward. Fleet's wings remind me of Magikarp's fins.

    I would've liked to add a fin to the item art as well, but couldn't find a suitable one that would've worked in such a small resolution. I had to settle for matching Magikarp's colour.

    Also, special badge for @Fanturluche, who made me grin with his submission.
    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG]
  14. BlackVoidDeath

    BlackVoidDeath Guild Leader

    Is it just me or does this look like a cooked chunk of Magickarp?
  15. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    uh, glad to know I won, but I can't quite figure out why, lol

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