November Balance Changes: Priests, Racial Skills, and more!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Flaxative, Nov 17, 2014.

  1. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    Hey everyone.

    Some balance changes just hit the test server. We're primarily targeting the early campaign, trying to make priests more versatile and racial skills less bad. There're also some more adjustments to the multiplayer game, following up on the last set of changes.

    You can read about the changes here:
    Racial Skills
    General Changes

    If you help us test these changes, you'll get pizza! More details here:

    To use the test server, please refer to this guide:

    I don't know how long we'll be testing all this, so if you're interested, get testing now!

    Thanks :)
    j3st3ri and CT5 like this.
  2. The Final Doorman

    The Final Doorman Orc Soldier

    Love all of the changes. Can't wait to try them out :)
    Flaxative likes this.
  3. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    I'm so confused by a lot of the changes... they aren't really addressing the biggest problems of binary gameplay. I do think they will help make single player more interesting -- but a lot of the changes seem a bit convoluted (Frenzy works for non-melee but at -1?).

    It is good to see some big offenders in MP being changed (Mass Frenzy, Dodge, Team Run), but some of the bigger design problem cards aren't being touched (or are even being buffed in the case of Martyr's Blessing).

    Things like Imp Nimbus, Res Hide, Smoke Bomb, Martyr's Blessing, Defender's Block, and a few others that just lead to a rock-paper-scissors gameplay are there. Those are much worse offenders for creating a compelling multiplayer.

    I do like the human and elf changes (they will probably require a lot of testing since they might make them even stronger) and having lower level racial items are sorely needed. However, I'm really hesitant to say Priests needed buffs (even though they are getting a lot of nerfs too with vamp).
  4. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    Cleansing Presence no longer heals enemies.

    Is it on purpose that this was changed but Cleansing Burst was not?
  5. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    As long as priests cards are being tweaked... can I suggest a slight adjustment to Help The Weak?

    The problem comes when the card "heals" a lower HP character who is at full health and ignores a character who is below full.
    • Lvl 18 Elf Wizard at full HP of 17
    • Lvl 18 Human Warrior at health 18
    • Lvl 18 Dwarf Priest at health 22
    If the priest plays HtW, the wizard gets "healed" 0 HP. I remember the first time this happened to me on the campaign it was extremely frustrating and counter-intuitive even though after the fact I did realize it did precisely what it said.

    My suggestion would be one of the following:
    1. Heal 5 to your ally below full health with the least total health. Ties are resolved...
    2. Heal 5 one ally of your choice.
    FDrybob and Stexe like this.
  6. Robauke

    Robauke Guild Leader

    The entirely different functionality of "surestrike blessing" compared to wavering faith upsets me greatly. What ways of lasting armor discard have priests left? I used wavering faith sucessfully to cripple my opponents options from afar and to remove armor so my fire spells could burn. It was basically Memory Loss with a heftier pricetag. It is far from "hiliariously bad", it can be as devestating for your opponents plan as any other discard spell.
    FDrybob likes this.
  7. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    You are easy to be upset greatly.
  8. Tragus

    Tragus Kobold

    Edit, Comment Not Relevant.
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2015
  9. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    Maybe they would if they had 10 legendaries they don't have.
  10. Magic Elves

    Magic Elves Thaumaturge

    Now that I don't have to play people with two warriors and one mass frenzy priest, I can turn my attentions to playing people using the frenzy and wellspring changes to create burst wizards of nuclear proportions. Pity I already have a head start on them, ha.

    Bad Luck's change creeps me out for some reason I'm not sure about, but other then huge amounts of bad vibes I'm interested.

    Trogs get nerfed again. If they ever get to be a playable character, they'll be hilariously bad even IN Singleplayer at this rate.

    Racial skill changes seem pretty cool all around, no complaints.

    General changes, all cool, nerf to 14, nerf to 16... ELF WIZARDS AREN'T ONE SHOTTABLE BY UNBUFFED ATTACKS ANYMORE?!? Finally yes amazing 10/10 expansion.
    Flaxative likes this.
  11. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    Not going to respond to the other things yet, but @Tragus: Vampires were playable before August when almost all their attacks were buffed for no real reason. Everything you're saying now, the opposite was said back then: vampires are going to be so OP, vampires are this, vampires are that. Well it turns out they were cool before and they're still cool and, you guessed it, they'll probably still be cool after these changes. Two rare cards are changing to have damage amounts closer to where they should be for their quality. On the flip side, vampires get tremendous buffs on the system level: the assist change and the Unholy Wellspring buff mean vampires will be able to more than make up for the slight decrease in firepower. I'm truly sorry that you feel the need to leave the game over this, but you can rest assured that plenty of folks will be having a lot of fun playing vampires in your absence :)
    Stexe likes this.
  12. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    I can affirm pre-balance I floated around 1650 with a Vamp based build, but if Tragus is speaking of an all vamp build, I can't say I've ever seen that hold consistently in the highest levels (pre or post balance). But I don't know that it has to for vamps to be playable and fun.
    Flaxative likes this.
  13. neoncat

    neoncat Feline Outline

    First pass at balance changes, then thread responses later...

    On the whole, I'm a bit perplexed by the scattered nature of the changes. It's hard to keep track of all that's being changed, and it's not always obvious what was being fixed. I'm happy about a handful of the changes, though, and the rest shouldn't affect much. ^_^

    Frenzy is super-complicated now. Also, damage wizards are already quite viable in the current map rotation, and this only makes them more damaging.
    Unholy Wellspring - this is probably more powerful for melee teams than Mass Frenzy used to be
    Mass Frenzy - glad to see it reigned in

    Healing Benediction, Healing Presence, Bad Medicine, Bungled Heal, Wavering Faith, Bad Luck - wat? these needed fixing? I'm going to miss them :(
    Surestrike Blessing - x-strike is now even more unblockable!

    Cleansing Presence, Healing Pulse - meh, I liked that you had to care about your positioning... hopefully Inspiring Presence won't be changed

    Human skills - *shrug*
    (Advanced) Battlefield Training - These may be useful now. I will look into upgrading X-Strike to use three humans.
    Lateral Thinking, Forward Thinking - interesting, must find ways to abuse Forward Thinking...

    Elf Skills - meh... the top elf skills were already as viable as top dwarf skills
    Scouting Run should be silver quality. (Even if it's targeted, it has no race restriction, unlike Elvish Insight.)
    Jump Back - meh... it didn't need a boost

    Freeze wasn't playable because it's only on joke items, though the damage boost may make Kazmir's Staff a viable damage staff.
    Resistant Hide - meh, just remove the non-immunity armor altogether
    Team Walk - lolz, I'm super happy this got nerfed but it sure is an awkward name
    Dodge - yay! good comparison to Surging Shield Block; note that War Cry (an attack) will trigger a roll for Dodge, potentially discarding it
    Oblit / Almighty - heh, well I guess those Hackmasters will come in handy now for X-Strike
    Stexe likes this.
  14. Hutto

    Hutto Kobold

    Edit: I missed the part where Frenzy gives -1 of the damage to casters, so the below comments are misinformed.

    Yeah, I really, really don't understand this buff to Unholy Wellspring. It is a great card as it is. It is outshined a little by Mass Frenzy because with MF you can give +3 to 3 characters instead of just one, which encouraged bringing lots of melee. With MF getting knocked down to +2, I'm not sure Unholy Wellspring will need the buff. It will match Savage Curse for damage (ouch!) without the card loss drawback.

    These damage adds to Wizards are going to flood the game with burst attacks.
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2014
  15. neoncat

    neoncat Feline Outline

    So vamps, I played vamps up to almost 1700 before everyone started stacking a hundred dodges on their warriors. With the changes to Dodge, they would totally be viable at high tiers. (And yes, the build requires tons of epic / legendary items.)
    Stexe likes this.
  16. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    Please playtest :)
  17. Hutto

    Hutto Kobold

    I don't think I'm really qualified to show how to play a team of burst wizards, seeing as I don't have the items to make a team of them now. I'd only make them look weak. :)
  18. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    On the test server, which is where all playtesting takes place, the "everyitem" console command gives you 1 of every item in the game. Use it two or three times and you will be able to make any build you like. And hey—even if you think you can't play them effectively, maybe you can play against them in a way that enlightens us! But are we talking about burst wizards? The Unholy Wellspring buff only affects melee damage. Ranged and magic damage continue to receive +3, as always.
    FDrybob likes this.
  19. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Banking and game design are two completely different beasts. Making the game better might alienate a few customers who are dead set on the current game state, but generally it increases player activity and response rate. Vampires are obscenely strong -- the only reason they aren't used more heavily is because of Dodge on Warriors. They are definitely viable in the top tier games and I've seen them used in 1600+ many times.
    FDrybob and Flaxative like this.
  20. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    I've seen this said a few times and it's 100% true.
    Remember, though, that many of the top skills in multiplayer are hard to access and/or less than stellar in the campaign. There're also approximately 100 racial skills that were not only not "top," but actually really bad. Most of our attention was focused on peasant racial skills and low level racial skills.
    neoncat likes this.

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