Non-Burst Builds

Discussion in 'Deck Building' started by gulo gulo, Nov 11, 2015.

  1. gulo gulo

    gulo gulo Guild Leader

    I've banned any use of bursts from my wizards for the rest of 2015.

    Why? Because bursts are boring, devalue and dilute strategy to counting squares, and suck the fun out of the game. Fireball is pretty much the worst card in the game, and the fact that current meta practically forces my three wizards to use bursts and linears (which I don't find as bad as bursts, but to each their own) makes my heart and brain go :(

    There has to be a better way.

    To that effect, I've started to tinker around with ideas that have been sitting in my keep for awhile, and thought I would share with the community. Perhaps this thread can be a place for the great minds of Cardhuntria to come together and find alternatives to burst/savage curse. Or it will be a place for me to post build after build after build. Primarily wizards here, because priests have 49754985689576358947560924 other strategies than radiation bombs.

    Here's the first (very horrible) creation. Hack away.

    j. chastain, the tempest
    Level 17 Human Wizard

    t. swift, the destroyer
    Level 17 Human Wizard

    j. lawrence, the virtuous
    Level 17 Human Wizard

    Any thoughts/comments/ridicules welcome.
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  2. Mama Mia

    Mama Mia Hydra

    Hmmmm... I wouldn't say that all burst cards should be banned. All my support priests carry Purging Burst :D:D
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  3. gulo gulo

    gulo gulo Guild Leader

    I never said they should be banned. I'm just trying to spur a conversation of moving past them. I think game play would be a lot more enjoyable.
  4. Mama Mia

    Mama Mia Hydra

    I meant banned as a hyperbole for "refrain from using". Sorry if I was being somewhat unclear.

    Jokes aside, I think burst is better on the current Gladius maps than other wizard attacks, which sadly, doesn't help your situation as a burst protester.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2015
  5. gulo gulo

    gulo gulo Guild Leader

    I know. I have been using them up to this point extensively, and saw my highest ranking ever with them. Well, I'll take that back....the bursts earned the ranking. It wasn't anything I did. I firmly believe anyone could have taken my build that I've been using and skyrocket up the charts. Which seems sort of off to me. I get making the game accessible to all, but what's the payoff for practicing, learning, and applying skill? There doesn't seem to be much comparable incentive with a beginner.

    Sort of like a commodity provider these days in the USA.....massive incentives to join up, but diminishing returns to repeat customers.

    If this is just the jaded views of a player on the fringe, so be it. I'd still like to talk about non-burst builds here, regardless of the community's thoughts about them in general. Conversation fosters innovation and imagination, and that sounds like a good idea to me.

    The above build is decent, it's close, but it's not viable yet. Still needs to be tweaked a little bit.
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  6. Obernoob

    Obernoob Hydra

    This seem to be more strategies than combination of items :p

    But back to the topic. The main problem is, that your build has to deal enough damage to take out a character as soon as possible. I tried for example Volcano for some time, because it is one of the best sources for a lot of damage. But it triggers just one time per round, beside Accelerate Time. And adding Accelerate Time does not help making a consistent build at all. Even with a pure draft priest supporting both wizard that is really difficult. A problem for your build is the mobility of the opposing team, as far as I can tell from the paper. So you need another, more reliable, source of damage.

    What clearly is working and can deal enough damage is a burn wizard. But ignoring all burst card won't help building a burn wizard, since he really needs every different card with burning he can get and burst is soooo sweet with Instant Burn. But maybe that is possible and you could add a burn wizard to your team. Do you take the challange?
    So we need another way to deal as fast as possible and reliable 20 - 30 dmg. Cooling Laser is certainly a good way to go. Every time I encountered it, it was pretty devastating. You just need three to get a character dead. Problem is you only can have four in your deck and you have to pay for that, because the laser is emerald. I think an Item with 3x Cooling Laser and 3x Flash Of Agony would technically possible, but the developers decided against such staff for a good reason. Did you try another two Supercooled Laser on a second mage? That could help a little bit. Unfortunatly the Mindsplinter Staff has the same problem. With a third good spark it could have been a useful staff. But at least you can get five Oliterating Sparks into your deck. So the problem is not only the burst cards, but also the items it is on. Getting 6x Fireballs is key beside the bursting effect.
    Which other high damage cards are there for wizards?
    Of course Punishing Bolt, but that card is way to dependend to be reliable. Against opposing wizard it is for the most parts a dead card. Against melee it can be good, but you are in trouble, if they are already in Punishing Bolt range.
    Is there another high damage dealing card? And more important another good item with at least three big attacks for wizards?

    Btw. guessing from your last post, you not only dont want to play burst, but make a build which does not rely on too many legendaries?

    Sorry that I am going back and forth. Writing while beeing ill in the bed may be not the best idea. And to be honest, I don't have a good idea. But talking about a problem often helps in finding a solution. Understanding the problem is key. :) Hope I could help anyway.
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  7. Obernoob

    Obernoob Hydra

    Too make a long story short: LoS is a ***** and there is non non-burst staff I can think of with enough good attacks.

    Beside that, it is a problem that a Fireball always for sure will hit two opposing characters even without LoS and deal them 4+2+4+2 =12 damage, if they don't have any armors. Compare that to a Cooling Laser or Obliterating Spark, where you even need line of sigh(t).
  8. Mama Mia

    Mama Mia Hydra

    Here's the no-burst wizard I'm currently testing.
    Director Wells
    Level 7 Dwarf Wizard

    I run this guy alongside an utilitarian priest and interchangebly a vampire elf or a VP elf warrior. Feel free to give some advice about the wizard or other party members.

    Also, what's the general opinion on Spreading Laser? It works kinda like a burst but you need line of sight.
    Edit: forgot how Spreading Laser works, fixed
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2015
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  9. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    It doesn't work like a burst, because you can't target an empty space and hit two units next to that space.

    You can try my electric wizards. They're burst-free, volcano-free, hell, even telekinesis-free! WoW-free! GoW-free!
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  10. Mama Mia

    Mama Mia Hydra

    Oh yeah! You need line of sight. I probably only ever played Spreading Laser once ;)
  11. Han Lee

    Han Lee Guild Leader

    Would take out the second wizard and replace with pure burning, then run 4x overheated mesmerizer on the cooling laser wizard. That way you ultracycle your cooling lasers while getting those hypnotic beacons and volcanos. Then you can dedicate your first wizard to accel time/control/illusory barrier. I tried this but I was (and am) lacking in illusions, phantom pain, and flame warpers, so my build was severely suboptimal.
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  12. Obernoob

    Obernoob Hydra

    Fat-free, gluten-free and vegan?
    Mama Mia likes this.
  13. Obernoob

    Obernoob Hydra

  14. Jezterscap

    Jezterscap Lizardman Priest

    I would rather face burst than volcano, it makes for boring games. pass pass pass.
  15. seth arue

    seth arue Thaumaturge

    What are people's opinions on using Tasty Staff, with say.....Dwarf? You can run 2 Tasty and still have room for 2 Blind Rage. Add in a MF Priest and you get some solid damage...just can't think of what to use for the arcane itens, etc, seeing as it's very late here.
  16. gulo gulo

    gulo gulo Guild Leader

    Thanks everyone for the conversation so far. Really good stuff here!

    I'm still convinced Heartripper does not exist, as I've never seen one in a store ever, haha.

    I'm wondering if Flash Of Agony + some Force Fields + some trait cycling might work. As I have 3x Staff Of The Misanthrope, this might be a way to go with 3x Painful Flashstaff, or 1x of the Painful, 1x Illusion, and 1x or 1x/2x Deadly, Deadly Staff (although I'd like to try this without linears as well; not essential, however).

    I'll have to take a look at this and see what I can concoct. Thanks for getting the brain working, and let's continue to talk about this stuff. I think it's worthwhile.

    @Obernoob , feel better!
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  17. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    2046,Heartripper,,Legendary,18,6,36,2,2,Punishing Bolt,Punishing Bolt,Punishing Bolt,Punishing Bolt,Punishing Bolt,Punishing Bolt,,,,,Staff,,Heartripper,,1,,
    You can find that data in:
    You see it does exist(I know you know it exists).
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  18. gulo gulo

    gulo gulo Guild Leader

    @timeracers, thread killer and joke destroyer. Well done, as always.
    ParodyKnaveBob and seth arue like this.
  19. Steinhauser

    Steinhauser Lizardman Priest

    If you want to maximize targeted damage the best options seem to be:

    Laser Blunderbuss

    Each has 3 big-damage spells, and some downsides among the other 3 cards.
  20. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    Thread killer? lol, like I know it is sorta off topic, but it doesn't end the thread. Joke destroyer? I was trying to joke by acting as if you didn't know it existed.

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