Killer's Crazy Constuctions

Discussion in 'Deck Building' started by Killer74, Jan 8, 2016.

  1. Killer74

    Killer74 Hydra

    Much as I'd like to do that, battle field training can only target your own guys.
  2. billiska

    billiska Ogre

    Right, some chat in the past somehow planted in me the idea that it was possible. I reread the card now to confirm that you're correct, thanks.
  3. Robauke

    Robauke Guild Leader

    It was changed a good while ago in its very own release, since a bug related to targeting enemies was so grave in nature, Jon had to update as fast as possible.
    Basically transfering no cards with battlefield training to your opponent and passing would have him stuck in his turn while his time would run out.
  4. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    Well, Battlefield Training is a thing. Other than that, not sure you'd want that many things. Probably just the Revenge. Unless you want to have 3 Adaptable guys.
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2016
  5. Killer74

    Killer74 Hydra

    Genetic Engineers: Triple priests with Gene Therapy & Genetic Engineering.

    Battles, Rating:
    Starting Rating: 1,343
    Maximum Rating Achieved: 1,436
    Finishing Rating: 1,408
    23 wins, 24 losses

    (went the whole way down to 1,249 before coming back up a bit)

    Level 18 Dwarf Priest

    Level 18 Human Priest

    Level 18 Human Priest

    2 legendaries, 7 epics, 3 rares, 8 uncommons, 10 commons.
    Note that Gene Therapy and Genetic Engineering don't both appear together on any one item. Gene Therapy has loads of cheap (rarity-wise) items, while Genetic Engineering appears only on Rare+ items.
    Gene Therapy: 11 overall; max. is 21. I threw in plenty of handicap traits to use them on as well (possibly to the detriment to the deck, hard to know)
    Genetic Engineering: 6 overall; max is 27. I don't have any St. Yatzie's Genetic Consoles or Kreevian Radcannons though. I realise I could have got a couple more of either on, but I think I struck a reasonablish balance between the two.

    I like the idea behind this deck, and had fun playing it (though I didn't want to play so many games with it; may have to change the system). Some notes about the gene cards. First, they are not holy types (thus don't trigger altruism), so I'm not sure what skill is best to use. Gene Therapy is projectile (so defensiveness and the like don't come into play), while Genetic Engineering is magic. If attachments are the same it will just replace another, and leave original attachments for Genetic Engineering (Gene Therapy removes them anyway, I think). Now, some maths:
    There are a total of 41 possible attachments. I've assigned a sort of vague value next to each one in terms of desirability, from 1 to 5, where 1 is next to useless, 3 is average, 5 is great. This is for my specific three priests (it is only very rough anyway), though you could change the numbers for other classes if you want. They are as follows.

    Possible attachments: There are 15 Adapted to __ (Acid (1), Arcane (2), Cold (2), Electrical (2), Fire (2), Holy (1), Laser (2), Piercing (2), Poison (1), Psychic (1), Radiation (2), Slashing (2), Sonic (1), Unholy(1)) , Altruism (3), Blind Rage (3), Bruiser (2), Crusher (3), Death Meld (2), Dimensional Traveller (3), Elven Maneuvers (4), Firestarter (1), Forward Thinker (3), Healing Spirit (3), Holy Presence (3), Hot Flames (1), Hover (3), Immovable (4), Impaler (2), Invisibility (5), Kindler (1), Mindless Battlerage (1), Rejuvenation (2), Retaliatory Mutation (5), Slicer (2), Slippery (5), Spark Generator (1), Spark Inductor (1), Talented Healer (4), Troll Regeneration (5).

    First off, the possibility all three attachments are the same: (1/41)^2 = 1/1,681. Probability all three are different: (40/41)*(39/41) = 1,560/1,681. Probability two will be the same: 1 - Prob. other outcomes = 120/1,681. So, it's quite likely you'll get three different attachments.

    Now, just looking at the very beneficial attachments, with value 5, we see there are three. The probability you will get at least one of these is 1-(38/41)^3 ~ 0.2, which is not too bad. There's another three with value 4. That probability is 1-(35/41)^3 ~ 0.38 that you'll get at least one of those.

    There are 25 attachments with value 1 or 2, so the probability you will not get any useful attachments (>2) is (25/41)^3 ~ 0.23.

    So, overall, about 3/4 chance of at least one semi-useful attachment, 2/5 chance of at least one useful attachment and about a 1/5 chance of at least one very useful attachment. I could go into more detail, but that's just to show that they are pretty useful cards. Do note that the first trait is easily knocked off though.

    It took a while for me to get used to the deck (or I was just playing badly to begin with). An honourable mention to Destructive Purge as a byproduct of having to use Gene Therapy; it is really useful. I don't think anyone would doubt that though so I'm not going to go into depth. It can be used in conjunction with Genetic Engineering on the opponent as well, though you do risk Invisibility. The radiation terrain was easily off-set by Gene Therapy. There were some strong melee attacks in here, though not too many, and it was a bit slow (movement wise) and not great against ranged but plenty of healing made up somewhat. It was a pretty balanced deck against all types of opponents.
    Genetic Engineering: Obviously, this relies on luck somewhat. It does knock off any bad stuff (if no multiples on the traits), so can be viewed as an expensive purge (which also gets rid of stuff from radiation), though it will also knock off any previous good attachments. Yod's Purification Kit is a pretty nice item anyway.
    Gene Therapy: At the very least a heal 3, but requires a bit more tailoring in your deck than Engineering, be that handicaps or radiation (to get handicaps from). I preferred this over Engineering, but I don't think it's a card you can throw into any old deck and expect it to work well; Engineering is a bit more versatile.

    Pros, Cons, Possible Improvements:
    • Lots of healing.
    • The priests got attachments that would make them undesirable target reasonably often.
    • Easily overcomes attachments, be they one's own or the enemy's.
    • Heavy hitting.

    • Sluggish.
    • Very little ranged damage.
    • Sometimes (not often though), the handicaps proved very detrimental.

    Possible Improvements:
    • More movement (not sure how though, better boots perhaps).
    • A wizard or warrior would probably be better for a third character.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
    visak13, Maniafig, 40c_rudy and 2 others like this.
  6. Killer74

    Killer74 Hydra

    Thought I had one of each adaptable armour for a damage negation deck, but what I actually have is 2 Tunics and one Ensemble. Messing around with battlefield training would probably be inefficient, but I'll give it some more thought.
  7. seth arue

    seth arue Thaumaturge

    So, Gene Therapy would trigger Talented Healer, right? Maybe that would work?
    Sir Veza likes this.
  8. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    Oh boy, cantrip attachment removal? This sounds genius!
    seth arue likes this.
  9. peonprop

    peonprop Thaumaturge

    Darn, someone caught on to my super secret tech. I haven't had time to test it out but I tried building a fun deck around cantrip Gene Therapy.

    Level 21 Elf Warrior

    Level 20 Elf Priest

    Level 20 Elf Wizard
  10. Killer74

    Killer74 Hydra

    If it had been built purely around Gene Therapy I would have used more Talented Healers but as it was I preferred using the tokens elsewhere and getting an extra handicap trait to change. I got Talented Healer reasonably regularly through Gene Therapy/Genetic Engineering but didn't find the cantrip a massive help.
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2016
  11. Killer74

    Killer74 Hydra

    Damage Limitation: 1-1-1 with self-damaging traits & Adaptable

    Battles, Rating:

    Starting Rating: 1544
    Maximum Rating Achieved: 1590
    Finishing Rating:
    11 wins, 7 losses

    Aimless Adept
    Level 18 Dwarf Wizard

    Haphazard Healer
    Level 16 Human Priest

    Level 15 Elf Warrior

    4 legendaries, 5 epics, 4 rares, 12 uncommons, 4 commons.

    One can create a deck with a similar idea, using only the legendaries needed for Adaptable, or else using more healing instead.

    Self-damage from one run through of the deck, roughly, discounting armour:
    25 from travelling curse, 16 from Demonic Revenge, 0-10 from Laser Spray, 0-14 from Impetuous Blast, 0-16 from Brain Burn, Minus 18 from Impetuous Healing. Some more from Blind Rage. With incredibly bad luck that is enough to die without the enemy's help.

    I was doing pretty well with this deck until I managed to lose to Cardotron twice in a row (once due to one very serious blunder, could easily have won had I not been careless), and I think it could have gotten a bit higher. I would say all the self-damage caused me to lose 1, or maybe 2 games, but the rest of the time it wasn't that harmful, and cycled around to more useful cards. Impetuous Heal did surprisingly little healing to the opponent, and off-set some of the Travelling Curse & co. damage. I ended up hitting myself or no-one mostly with Impetuous Blast. I didn't manage to get Defensiveness to cancel any Demonic Revenge, unfortunately. Adaptable reduced self-damage considerably when it came up. The deck handled all types of opponents pretty well. Travelling Curse rarely did much/any damage to opponent.

    Pros, Cons, Possible Improvements:
    • Fairly consistent drawing.
    • High damage.
    • Adaptable to different strategies.
    • Traits can be very harmful if unlucky.
    • Slightly sluggish.
    Possible Improvements:
    • More healing/armour.
    • Less harmful traits.
    Scale of 1-10, where 1 is awful, 5 is middling, and 10 is excellent:
    Damage: 9
    Playing Difficulty (how easy it is to use): 6
    Adaptability (how well it can cope with different opponents/strategies): 9
    Maneuverability: 4
    Defense/Healing: 2 (taking into account all the negative traits)
    Master Goo, Lucky Dice and 40c_rudy like this.
  12. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    I was trying out a similar build and found out that my character cannot target himself with bad luck. Has this always been this way?

  13. Robauke

    Robauke Guild Leader

    Yeah you would need a full priest team to A provide bad luck for each others rocket dashes and B compensate for whatever outcome your dashing character or his allies face. Also its only 50% failure which is not very satisfying in the tests i made. The office mixup league is good testing ground for it though.
    (also we got unlucky now! if only i had 3 of the armors)
  14. Deepweed

    Deepweed Thaumaturge

    I can see your Rocket Dash build working in these maps. There's so much room for creative innovation with regard to Fly right now, and you have all the flight you need. I suggest 2x Human Priests with your choice of bad luck weapons, Demon Charm Of The 7th Circle, and Mass Frenzy; the third character would be a Vibrant Pain elf or dwarf (I guess that would be based on your preference). In effect, you have a Nimble Strike-loaded Rocket Dash-supplemented team. It sounds a bit scary because you'll always have great buffs and a way to knock out debuffs (Bad Luck + Mass Frenzy + Unholy Wellspring / other buffs).
  15. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    So when I saw Rob running this build, I think he was running elves and they seemed a little flimsy, but I tried dorfs and they were too slow so I've opted for humies. I prefer redundancy so all three are mostly the same. I like the synergy of hard to pin down with bad luck since I usually want it for a run to close with the wizards. Obviously you need some frenzy aura armor on there. Then the question is what other weapons and divine items to equip. I thought, with all that bad luck and almost no blocks or normal armor, I'd need to heal and what better way to heal than to do damage at the same time, so...I'm equipping vamp items in the items slots. The final item slot is triple bad luck. Then in the weapon slots you can go one of two ways...unnerving strike or lasers. I chose to go lasers with lightforce nunchaku which has three. Occasionally, you'll drop one of your own laser cards, but the benefit of doing lots of damage outweighs the risk. What's lovely with the Rocket Dash is that you know beforehand what lasers are going to come eeking out of your butt before you move, so you move accordingly.
  16. Robauke

    Robauke Guild Leader

    Nope. Humans, 3 priests. There is a triple elf warrior rocket charge build i used here and there.
    I am not super comfortable disclosing my progress with this build, but why not, its wacky at best.
    Since even i dont own every item i would like to use 3 times, one of the priests was build to be more supportive/restorative. Adding frenzy aura is an interesting idea if you use true strike spear as source of bad luck as i do, not so much when you bring a lot of touch of death, which is what i do. Both cards provide me with relatively save ways to deal damage against melee teams. With the arrival of that unlucky AI armor which name i never can remember, that frenzy aura path died for me anyway.
    I am using Demon Charm Of The 7th Circle to provide unholy wellspring for magic and melee alike and the third bad luck. Paired with Dworia's Soulstone i got enough buffs to turn a potential laser spray malfunction into something that might empty the map from any living being. Third item in use is Lifedrinker Tome, good item. Boosted heal with bad luck seems odd, but you arent under bad luck all the time, and it can be as good as additional armor.
    My thoughts about armor and blocks are, bring those that still work well even when your rolls are affected. So i went with dark chain shirt and currently run Croker's Lucky Laser Shield. If you think about the self damage you are planning to endure, i am tempted to make use of nimbus. Duality Mace looks to good for the job to pass on it. The main weapon is currently Bynzer's Black Spear, but that was always just some sort of placeholder. Though some recovery by drains are nice in the builds play.
    The priest skill i currently use is somewhat of an underdog, its Apprentice Cleansing. As i see inspiration, its cycling if you want it to be, but you can choose which teammember gets the card - something of high value when your strategy depends on allies doing someting in preparation. The surestrike blessing can make sure a highly boosted spear of darkness provides recovery. Altruism might be the better choice once nimbus comes into play.
    Human skill is taste, might be interesting to shift rocket dashes to already buffed/unlucky allies with Battlefield Training, but you could as well use leadership or inspirational thinking.

    I got to say, you learn to appreciate bad luck more when you got so many floating around everyone is affected. You see armor fail, you see enemy lasers fail, you see blocks fail... Quantity has the impact one bad luck fails to produce.
  17. Magic Elves

    Magic Elves Thaumaturge

    For completely unselfish reasons, what are the thoughts on building a deck with two or more warriors around Pressing Problems?
  18. visak13

    visak13 Ogre

    I would love to see it paired with Eixocl's Hammer but I don't have even 1 copy of Pressing Problems and I am too lazy to play MM and use my unused brains. :p

    And may also include Vibrant Pain to compensate for the movement.

    The blocks are also strong. Geez!
  19. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    My favorite build for pressing bash prior to pressing problems primarily preferred using priests with impenetrable nimbus. Nimbus isn't that great unless you are standing on the victory square.
  20. Killer74

    Killer74 Hydra

    Sounds (somewhat) like a request! Unfortunately, I have a grand total of 0 Pressing Problems (at least, Cardhuntrian ones) at this time, so it'll be a while before I get around to it.

    I haven't been playing much lately, but currently using double teleporting brutal charge wizards and support priest on these maps, which is quite fun.

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