Gold economy (and pizza economy while we're at it)

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by Sir Knight, Jan 9, 2013.

  1. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    So let me see if I have this straight--and, while we're at it, explain things to people not in the beta.

    You get items from battles or starter packs, and all items can be sold for gold (particularly Treasures, though I could see myself keeping around a barrel and some bacon in perpetuity). It LOOKS like gold price for an item is based on rarity, not on level. A Common item gets you 1 gold; Uncommon, 2; Rare, 5; and apparently Epic, 20, though I haven't seen it and I don't know what other rarities I may be missing.

    "Sort by rarity" is therefore identical to "sort by cost." Is this intended? I imagine it won't last into the release version, else those buttons are redundant.

    But if it IS intended, then it means that gold is on a very interesting economy. As you go up in level, you need to earn the same amount of stuff to buy your new equipment. Further, using pizza to get a pack and then selling it is only moderately useful, but equally useful no matter your level.

    A single gold coin has a relatively high buying power. Amusingly, I can imagine people having more pizza than gold lying around.

    Edit: Also, currently, Raid on Ommlet is a quick way to make 7 gold every day since the loot is static. Not much, but it's money for very little effort.
  2. Haxzploid

    Haxzploid Ogre

    Thank you for the little insight.
  3. Jesus669

    Jesus669 Orc Soldier

    Thanks for the guide on in game currency.
  4. Mystral

    Mystral Kobold

    For as far as i can see, it seems selling prices are based on rarity like you said. But buying prices seem to be rarity + level. For example a level 4 rare divine weapon: Mace of the Angry Novice. Sells for 5 gold, in the shop the buying price is 100 gold. To buy a level 6 rare item in that shop you pay 200 gold. In the level 6 item shop prices get even higher, commons starting at level 6 for 10 gold, but the highest level common i can see right now is level 11 and costs 35 gold. Uncommons from 75 gold at level 7 to 125 gold for level 9. And only one rare in there right now level 6 for 200 gold.
    I don't have any items higher than level 6, so i don't know if you get more gold for selling them. If not than prices become a bit crazy in my opinion. You would have to sell 63 uncommons to buy one level 9 uncommon. But like i said i don't have any items higher than level 6, so hopefully selling prices will get higher.
  5. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    As I got a pack, I have some for comparison:

    Superb Battledancing, level 18 Common, 1 gold
    Healer's Spear, level 15 Uncommon, 2 gold
    Blessed Spear, level 16 Rare, 5 gold

    So selling prices are indeed stationary across levels. Given that I'm looking at a store right now and I see the 200 gold price you mention (also 400 and 500), this will PROBABLY be subject to change . . .

    In quasi-related news, I keep trying to use my mousewheel to scroll in a store, and it keeps not working. That messes with me a little.
  6. DarkDain

    DarkDain Goblin Champion

    I've found the gold-to-open chests to be worth every piece if you're looking for Rare gear, especially since you need to hold onto lower level-higher quality gear for some challenges.
  7. Mystral

    Mystral Kobold

    Wow, thank you for that tip, just got a level 1 epic from the first chest i opened, and 2 level 7 items. :eek:
    With the prices being what they are the chests seem a better deal, even if only one of every few chests would give something really good.

    Either something changes in later levels, like treasure that gives more gold, or the shops are not really a good deal right now. I can understand that we are not supposed to have all the good stuff after playing for just a few days. But selling a level 16 rare for 5 gold seems a bit silly if buying one costs hundreds of gold. But if prices of the shops change so would the prices of the gold-to-open chests i guess, or it might be possible to sell just a few of those items to buy another chest, and keep repeating that, just keeping the really good stuff.
  8. DarkDain

    DarkDain Goblin Champion

    Speaking of pizza economy, i just noticed that the dungeon i unlocked, Defense of Woodhome gates, no longer offers the epic item, i only get it once? I basically paid 20 pizza (free pizza) for a chance to obtain a single item, or is there more to these premium dungeons because i can no longer tell it apart from the regular dungeons ? Shouldnt we get the same item or maybe a different item for each completion per day? And if we are getting loot for a PREMIUM dungeon, will they be soulbound so you cant just give away these premium dungeon loots? But this is a CCG and trading MUST be in it right?
  9. Jesus669

    Jesus669 Orc Soldier

    The way the economy is set up sounds like they do indeed want players to pace themselves on gaining everything, which is good in my opinion. To get stuff you want you ether have to save up for that one item you think you really want, or the more likely direction, which is to go farm the higher level dungeons in the hopes of luckily picking up a good reward that is higher level. I'm not sure what the chest thing you are all talking about because I'm not in beta yet, but it sounds like the only work around for now.

    How much do these chests cost (in pizza?)

    Another question, do you find any gold in the missions themselves as rewards? I know items are the basic reward, but if they also handed out gold and it scaled per dungeon level that would help in aquiring higher level gear. It's something that scales nicely, and you wouldn't be able to exploit it do to new dungeons being locked until you complete prior dungeons.
  10. Zoorland

    Zoorland Goblin Champion

    So far, you never directly earn gold from completing an adventure/dungeon. You occasionally get "treasure" items which can only be sold, not equipped (barrel of pickled herring, side of bacon, some gemstone thing, etc...) so I suppose that is an indirect gold payment... but those don't show up very often.

    The Chest costs 50 gold to open each time. I do not (yet) see a Pizza cost for it, but I'm not as far along in the beta as some of these guys.
  11. DarkDain

    DarkDain Goblin Champion

    I think the mutliplayer area has a chest you can open with pizza, was it like 30 pizza? Might of been ten. Either way, thats a lot, thats 4-12 bucks for a few random items if you buy 100 pizza for 44$
  12. Jesus669

    Jesus669 Orc Soldier

    Oh wow, 50 gold seems like a lot for a chest. Assuming a dungeon had 3 parts and each part you found 2 common and an uncommon item for the reward, you are looking at 12 gold a dungeon? I don't know how many items people actually get so I just gave a guess. Still, if it's only slightly more then that it would take you quire a few dungeons, probably over an hour of farming to open 1 chest in the hopes of getting an equal level rare or better item. Is there any information out on the rate:rarity chests hand out?
  13. Zoorland

    Zoorland Goblin Champion

    Most battles in an adventure seem to give two items, with the final battle usually giving 3-5.

    The 50 gold Chest is a guarantee of... I think 5 items. Given that even the cheapest Common items cost 5 gold to purchase and uncommons cost 10, it's really a pretty good deal. It just takes time to save up.
  14. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    Zoorland, that math is very compelling. Thanks.

    To explain to others: the "chest" thing is from a type of store. So far, I have seen:

    Level X shops - Ordinary items. Gold-based. At a guess, the "level" might be the minimum level of items available, as I currently see levels 1-6 on items in a level 1 shop and 6-9 in a level 6 shop.

    Level X treasure shops - Randomized loot from treasure chests. Gold-based. My level 8 treasure shop says "This chest contains a random assortment of five items from levels 1 to 8."

    Level X figure shops - Character models. Pizza-based. I have a level 1 figure shop and I don't see the function of "level."

    Anything else?

    I disagree. I develop quite a pile of bacon over time, so I get the impression that they are drawn with equal frequency to other item types.
  15. Jon

    Jon Blue Manchu Staff Member

    Just a quick note to confirm some things (and fully explaining our thoughts on the economy would take a lot longer).

    The amount shops will pay you for your items is based entirely on their rarity, not their level. The amount they sell them for is based on your level (i.e. the highest level you have achieved so far) and their rarity. There are two reasons for this:

    • By charging you more for high level items, we make it a bit harder for you to jump ahead in the power curve, although you can pay to do so if you want.
    • By selling things for flat amounts (level-wise), we ensure that low level rare items remain valuable in the late game.
    The latter point is different from the way most RPGs work and reflects our desire to keep low level adventures interesting (from a replay point of view) in the late game. Let me know if that doesn't make sense in any way.
    The specific numbers (both pizza and gold) are very likely to change along the way.
  16. DarkDain

    DarkDain Goblin Champion

    If i delete all of my high level characters, will the prices of items in the higher level shops be adjusted to character level 1 ? Sacrificing levels for bargains. I cant test this because i cant delete characters, but its just a thought. Since price is determined by rarity, then even low level dungeons are profitable and will require lower tech gear to complete (even if you dont get exp) :(
  17. Farbs

    Farbs Blue Manchu Staff Member

    Yeah, I do the same. I experimented with this a bit when I made the item collection displays slotless (they used to use pages of slots, rather than a single scrollable page). It was a little finicky and I didn't get it working properly, so I turned it off. I'll add a todo item to revisit it though.
  18. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    Jon may have to advise, but I read this the opposite way. If you are a high enough level to deserve the items, they are made cheaper for you. Hence his comment about it being difficult to "jump ahead," buying things much beyond your level. If you went back to level 1, you'd RAISE your prices, as now the items would be far above you.
    And how. I just got around 25 gold (halfway to a new chest) by doing the four introductory adventures again. 15 of that came from Treasure items. By implication, a casual gamer or someone who's really busy could just play a few minutes of Card Hunter each day, and get lovely randomized loot every two days. That's . . . rather reassuring, given how much time commitment is needed in order to remain "competitive" in a lot of games.

    Now . . .
    I LOVE IT. I just LOVE the idea of rarity alone mattering for selling prices. I LOVE any system where a single coin has high buying power. And it's even better if this system has no built-in price inflation where high-level characters spend enough heavy gold to kill their pack mule buying a set of gloves--merely price inflation if you go beyond your level, granting those people who do get a ton of gold something to do with that. Keep it! (Though tweaks may be in order, I'm sure.)
    Jon likes this.
  19. Dugrim

    Dugrim Orc Soldier

    Maybe (I said MAYBE) it could be better to have 2 options buying the treasure chests?
    1) Pay X for random items and/or skills
    2) Pay X+Y for random items and skills of race of your choice

    I bought a treasure chest 3 times, and I found skills for Elf or Human, pretty useless in my Dwarves Party, twice.
    So I'm willing to pay a little more to find skills that I can use for sure.
  20. Sir Knight

    Sir Knight Sir-ulean Dragon

    Or items that you can use for sure. Don't forget that "Weapon," "Divine Weapon," and "Staff" are different, as are "Heavy Armor," "Divine Armor," and "Robes." I currently have two Robes in total, despite having dozens in other categories. Oh, and exactly one Martial Skill that I got from a pack.

    So, really, there's a lot of interest in specificity.

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