Aloyzo's Arsenal Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Card Hunter General Chat' started by Flaxative, Jul 29, 2015.

  1. seth arue

    seth arue Thaumaturge

    @Stexe question: would you have the same thoughts on the MM submission contest? People tend to post their custom boards in separate threads, but once they submit a board to the MM thread, that's it, I'm pretty sure nobody edits their board after submitting.
    Likewise, I think AA would be best if that were the case. Design all you want in the Smithy, submit your final project, then leave it alone! Why is this a hard concept to grasp?
    ParodyKnaveBob and Stexe like this.
  2. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Yes, I have the same thoughts on all creative entries. I'm a huge proponent of open discussion, collaboration, feedback, and more. The submission thread should be devoid of discussion so it doesn't clutter things up. As for why is this such a hard concept to grasp? I have no idea... that's why I've been confused about this whole thing. Why not let people do what they want if it doesn't hurt anyone?
  3. seth arue

    seth arue Thaumaturge

    My only thought, @Stexe , is why can't you leave current AA discussion in the Smithy, as opposed to making a thread for it?
  4. Wocket

    Wocket Orc Soldier

    While I have much respect for this community, I'd prefer to leave things in the hands of the dev team and not people voting themselves bread and circuses, all things being equal.

    I'd opine that letting the community vote in a replacement for Twice Tasty was an error simply because while involvement is a wonderful thing to have and encourage, people en masse are poor at decision making but very good at entitlement.
  5. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Smithy is just for item creation in general. I wanted something specifically focused around AA.
    Unfair rules that restrict people's freedoms with no gain just hurts everyone. People were already breaking the rules technically by discussing things in private or in-game. Simply having it on the forums shouldn't change anything. And people are often poor at decision making, but that doesn't mean people shouldn't try to make change. Letting people discuss things openly should always be the goal. It doesn't hurt anyone to simply ask for feedback.
  6. Wocket

    Wocket Orc Soldier

    In a perfect world, it wouldn't. In this one, when you ask for feedback but ultimately decide to go in a different direction, people to get to get far more upset than if you hadn't asked to begin with.

    And just to explain my position, I have no strong feelings on the discussion of AA submissions, although I see where Flax is coming from. I'm primarily coming out against everything being a democratic process. I like this benevolent oligarchy, tyvm.
    seth arue likes this.
  7. seth arue

    seth arue Thaumaturge

    Why? There's nothing dedicated to making custom boards for MM, and nobody has a problem with that. We get incredible submissions for MM!
    Is it really difficult to just leave it in the Smithy?
    Perhaps the problem is the lack of thought people I've to item crwation, compared to board creation. With boards, there's a lot to think about. Yet, with items, people might not be thinking "is this fun?" which is the whole goal of both MM and AA (as well as CH, too!)
  8. seth arue

    seth arue Thaumaturge

    On a different note, I can barely wait for feedback from my *previous* submission, the yellow dragon's fang (staff). But I will wait.....^.^
  9. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Why can't we strive for improvement? Why accept the status quo when changing it only benefits people and hurts no one? The point of the discussion was to improve submissions and give people better ideas on what to submit. If you didn't want feedback you could simply ignore the discussion.

    Benevolent? That isn't the word that comes to mind. Especially when a response is rude, sarcastic, and villainizes someone for speaking out. I'm not saying it should be democratic, I'm just saying that people should be free to discuss things. Saying that Flax has to read every single post on the forums *and* that reading it would sway his decision making process is a stretch.

    From the way Flax phrased it any discussion of a potential item submission, even in Smithy, would result in disqualification and be breaking the rules. People do ask for feedback for MM things -- just not many people give feedback. Also, people who submit MM things are allowed to provide commentary for their submissions and talk about it (Official quote from the submission page: "Discussion of the Mauve Manticore and how it works is very much welcomed and occurs over here." and there is this discussion thread: There is no insanely restrictive rules . I know I asked for a ton of feedback when I was designing my MP boards and when I was making the Monster Hunt league ( Why is discussing your MM maps okay but your AA submissions not?
  10. seth arue

    seth arue Thaumaturge

    @Stexe if you've made a board, then consider this: how hard is it to make an item, compared to making a MM board?
    I can make an item, on my phone, within 30 minutes. Making a board takes a lot longer, and requires me to be sitting at a computer. What I said about complexity earlier is the EXACT reason why it shouldn't be necessary! That item I spent 30 minutes on? Whatever, if it gets picked, great. But a board.....definitely something needing more feedback.
    Would you agree?
  11. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Boards might have a lot more going on at first glance, but in reality they don't. Also, complexity doesn't mean one warrants discussion and the other does not. I can make a board in a few minutes honestly. It might not look good or play well, but it would be easy to crank it out.

    When I made items for submission for AA (I've made 3 but only submitted 1 for last month's entry) I looked at a large number of factors. Including what is / isn't in the game already, what would be fun to use, what would be flavorful, and how it would potentially change the game state. There are a lot more ripples involved in an item than there are in a map -- anyone can use an item but maps are very limited (either to being a random thing in a month of normal MP or being something you sign up for as a league).

    You can basically opt out of a map, but you can't opt out of an item inclusion (despite what Flax tried before with his NS / WW / WWE protest). There is a reason why neoncat, one of the most helpful members and active players quit multiple times -- because he was frustrated with the current set of items (specifically Nimbus and Volcano) and I don't blame him. Those are from items, not maps.
  12. seth arue

    seth arue Thaumaturge

    I'd disagree. Anyone can play a Mauve map as soon as it's released, but someone could make an epic item, and it's not immediately in everyone's inventory.
  13. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    You have to look at the long term changes. Just because someone might not get the item to use doesn't mean it is healthy for the game. The old Vibrant Pain was like that -- not many people had it at start but it was absurd.
  14. Scarponi

    Scarponi Moderator

    I keep seeing the argument: "X should not be disallowed because people are doing it anyway/will do it anyway." For what it's worth, this is never a valid argument for making something legal. If it were we'd have to eliminate every law/rule that has been broken by multiple people (i.e. virtually every law that exists). A law or rule that one doesn't like should be argued against on the merits of the law itself (which I realize has also been done and I'm not discounting that).
  15. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Sure it is a valid argument if it is coupled with "it doesn't hurt anyone and restricting it just makes it worse for others."
  16. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    If people like(hit the like button) my review then I will try to complete it faster.
    Han Lee, seth arue and Stexe like this.
  17. A lot of excellent submissions this month! There's a lot of usable/balanced items. I like when they choose some cool design items, but as a player i like more when they choose a balanced and usable item, because CH have potential.

    I would like to see 3 or 4 items chosen this month, i think that nobody will complain about that ;)
  18. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    SHHHH! What are you doing?! You can't talk about item submissions before it is closed! Your comments might sway judgement or something!
    Fry likes this.
  19. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    Okay, guys, I think quarreling isn't what Flax needs in this thread tbh.

    I'd like to remind you that it was HIS idea. He came up with that, Jon (I think) agreed, and thanks to these two folks, we have something that's really a fun way to let your creative "you" get out and make something, leave a mark.

    I said "creative "you"" not without a reason. It's a contest. Contest for each and every single individual! Yes, individual, therefore a single person. If there was a contest for the best photo, you wouldn't pin a question about what to shoot on every single pole, hoping people would answer you. You'd ask friends, family for suggestions. I think the most other people should give you is an idea, not the completed item. A theme. Something like that.

    But in the end, you get to make the photo yourself. And here, you submit the item... yourself! It might make it to the game, it might not. Such is life. I've been trying my best to be picked, but in the end I'm just happy this contest exists, because I can share my ideas!

    As for the picking system, democracy isn't the best here, honestly. I can imagine people voting for their own items, etc. Situations like that. Even when Flax posts his shortlist to vote from, it's almost bound to happen. However, Flax is a Dev, so is Jon. They know what do they want from their game. They, and all the other people working on this game, have an image of what do they want for this game to become, and try to make it happen. Not to mention, because of the fact it's THEIR contest, I think they have all the rights to pick the items they find suitable.
  20. Stexe

    Stexe #2 in Spring PvP Season

    Just because there is a sole winner doesn't mean people can't bounce ideas back and forth. If there was a contest for best photo I'd definitely ask for help in generating ideas on what to shoot. Maybe no one would answer, but why not ask anyone? Asking friends and family for suggestions wouldn't be as good because they, in your example, aren't photographers with insights that only photographers might have.

    They can do whatever they want, that is true, but shouldn't they not be hurting the community by policing it over silly little things? How does that help promote a strong community?

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