Aloyzo's Arsenal Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Card Hunter General Chat' started by Flaxative, Jul 29, 2015.

  1. Killer74

    Killer74 Hydra

    Just a couple more things on the Tasty, Tasty staff argument: That cards may appear similar to current cards doesn't necessarily mean they will be balanced. Having melee projectile attacks (three per staff) adds a dynamic to the game that may not necessarily be good. The introduction of more than one card on an item gives a greater possibility of it being unbalanced. Remember that these things don't receive all testing for balance. I don't think it will affect the game overmuch to be honest, but that doesn't say that it won't. Also, rules are good to have. I hate nonsense about creativity being about breaking the rules (at least, as long as they are good rules), or knowing when to break them yadda yadda, it takes more creativity to follow the rules and still make an interesting item (or whatever). In many cases here, there were cards used that didn't belong to the monster on items, but still followed the theme of the monster.

    Now, that is not to say that the rules/guidelines shouldn't be broken, Spritastrophe broke the following a monster guideline to make a staff based around multiple monsters, and, I think, made a good item, but it still, in its way, followed the idea of the guidelines, just put an interesting spin on things.

    Anyway, enough of a tongue-lashing on that subject, some general thoughts about the winning items:

    Argy Bargy Sneakers: Adds an interesting new card to the mix, well on theme. Muscle through doesn't get enough love, though that's because the current items that have it are subpar. However, its introduction is brought with the introduction of another boot (at the same token cost, and I believe the same rarity) which completely invalidates any reason for its existence, namely:

    Muscle-Bound Boots: Clumsy at 1 duration is hardly a handicap at all, and just serves as a cycle card. It will be an interesting addition for players to have, in qd, and possibly, on future items as well as this one, but the duration could possibly be increased to make it an actual handicap. Two Muscle Throughs and what is essentially a cycle card make this a strong item.

    Spritastrophe: A cool new staff which is incredibly unfocused, but has good dynamic cards to make up for that. Follows a strong general theme of sprites, if not any one in particular. Ice Bolts is a strong encumber attack which may help wizards out against those pesky warriors.

    Infected: This one I don't like. I don't even think it's overpowered like some seem to, but I still don't like the addition of Festering Guts. Either it gets used or it does not. If it does not, there is no reason to add it. In the other case, well:
    Each game of CH is a delicate game of playing for the advantage. Every card used changes the balance in some fashion, incrementally swinging it one way or another. Obviously, some do this more than others. Each players tries to gauge what the other is doing. Now comes Festering Guts. One person knows he has it. Of course, it may never come up. But if it does, depending on the positions of the characters etc., it can lead to a very big swing in the game. I don't think it even matters who that swing is for. "There are other cards that do this," you may argue. Well, not sure what ones you are talking about (possible candidates: radiation (I initially played with this the whole time when it came out, but I grew to dislike it), All Out Attack, etc ), but I probably don't like those either.
    All that being said, a human skill is a good choice for the slot if this card must be added, and shuffles are obviously not very useful.

    Tasty, tasty staff: For all my complaining about it, I actually do like this item. Putting aside the issue of whether it should have won, it's melee attacks can be blocked by parry and the like. This isn't actually necessarily, or perhaps even usually, a disadvantage, unless you are playing two/three wizards. It can be used to trigger blocks from a safe distance without being under threat, and then one's warrior can go in and dish out damage. Tongue Grab - Decent alternative to Winds of War. Tongue Storm - Slightly worse burst attack than the current lot. Tongue Lash - Pretty average ranged attack. It's an interesting addition.

    Sorry for the big long rant.
    [Edited to fix my misspellings of Spritastrophe]
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2015
  2. Steinhauser

    Steinhauser Lizardman Priest

    Thanks for your kind words. I liked this submission better too, as a creative item. However, after looking at the prizes a second time I decided I'd rather have a lower chance of winning an item I would use than a higher chance of winning something I would never use.

    As a general note: happy to see a rules-breaker win. Knowing that flair trumps by-the-letter rules is valuable information for future contests, and I look forward to seeing submissions get wackier. (Also glad that fun staff isn't a third pair of useless boots that did follow the rules)
    Sir Veza, Inkfingers, Vholes and 2 others like this.
  3. Honestly I loved the design of the Tasty, Tasty Staff and was disappointed when I assumed it was automatically disqualified. I can certainly understand people's frustration, but at the same time the best-designed items should win. Try to remember that Aloyzo's Arsenal is brand new (and very cool) and will need to go through some growing pains. Now we know for the future that rule-bending is risky but can pay off if done in a reasonable and awesome way. Congrats to all the winners and I look forward to the Halloween update! ☺
  4. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    Yeah, it's fun for everybody... but me... :C

    I like the infested skill, I really do... mwahahah.
    Inkfingers and Flaxative like this.
  5. Assussanni

    Assussanni Ogre

    Thank you for listening. I think the solution that you have come up with is excellent.

    For the record my opinion on the issue is identical to that of @Sir Veza (post on page 27, I don't think I could actually have put it into words better myself) and I only mention it at all in the hope that it is useful feedback.

    What hasn't changed is the amount of fun I had designing items for the competition. I'm already looking forward to AA#4 :)
    I'm sure you've already thought of this/said it elsewhere, but just in case you haven't could you please also change Mad Dog to be a Boost|Handicap so that it is consistent with Festering Guts?
    Sir Veza, Inkfingers and CT5 like this.
  6. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

  7. Harvet

    Harvet Goblin Champion

    Congratulation to all winners!

    I haven't much to say about wining items, but, I think, changing quality of festering guts was necessary for QD. If you have a FG when your deck is 7 cards, it could be realy powerfull.

    I like the idea of @SceoMyntan's ARGY BARGY BRAND SNEAKERS and @Pawndawan's MUSCLE-BOUND BOOTS, because in pair with cards like Jump, Soldier or Barge you can make displacing priest for assist your Mages.

    By the way, I want to hear some feedback about my submission. Thanks for the video, now I know it
    was poorly designed than @Duke Tresnor's SPRITASTROPHE, and I agree it wasn't win or come to comunity choice short list. But, I want to know, did I make a mistake, when designed it, or I simply outplayed by better submission?
    2)Captured sprite staff (Based on Arcane sprite)
    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.
  8. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    Your item was in my top 20. Nice job!
    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.
  9. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    What about mine?
  10. billiska

    billiska Ogre

    your top 20 list had my curiosity.
    Inkfingers likes this.
  11. BlackVoidDeath

    BlackVoidDeath Guild Leader

    ParodyKnaveBob likes this.
  12. Pawndawan

    Pawndawan Champion of Cardhuntria

    I don't think there's anything bad about your item or you did any mistakes. Based on Vakaz's Item Creator your staff is lvl 18 (majortoken)(majortoken), which I think it's the biggest "problem". It's a bit weak for double major (looking at you Dynamic Staff), since EttSC has introduced us lvl 19 and 20 staves.

    Spritastrophe is all over the place, since it combines many Sprites. I think your staff could perhaps be more focused, since it's based on one Sprite only. Making it more focused on discard would make it more interesting in my opinion.

    tl;dr: Making it a bit more stronger for it's token cost and more focused on card discard, would make it better in my opinion. :)
  13. BlackVoidDeath

    BlackVoidDeath Guild Leader

    If these monster cards are now on items in game, does that mean that we can use these cards in future submissions? :)
    From your logic this should be allowed ;)
  14. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    In theory, but I would say doing so will be pretty risky.
  15. Lucky Dice

    Lucky Dice Thaumaturge

    So if someone uses them right, they'll get picked, right?
    Fry, GregarFalzar and Inkfingers like this.
  16. Harvet

    Harvet Goblin Champion

    TY for feedback, @Pawndawan.
    To be honest, I was interested in creating staff based on discarding. With it players can make support wizards, who deal little damage, but throw sand in the wheels of opponents by pushing and discarding. But I think, that putting more than 2 Memory Loss or Perplexing ray (that doesnt belong to arcane sprite) will be dangerous for fitting theme.
  17. Inkfingers

    Inkfingers Thaumaturge

    So what kinds of ways do you think things could have been expressed to make it so you wouldn't feel like Flax was breaking his own rules?

    I'm addressing this to @Sir Veza and @Assussanni, plus @Juxtapostion (if he's in a good place to answer), because they're the ones I noticed with strong responses in that direction. If I missed you, or if you simply havent commented yet, I also invite you to share your opinion - I want to understand why you think it was unfair or unjust, but in a way that encourages a solution (Those of you who did comment, I really appriciate you communicating how you were feeling about this, and hope that we can find a way to make you feel like it's had a fair resolution).

    I feel like seeing how all of you would have written the rules to convay that what happened was going to happen will be an interesting exercise in perspective, and also help provide us all tools to understand each others positions.
    ParodyKnaveBob and Sir Veza like this.
  18. Darn, I didn't get a mention either. I just wanted a decent cold staff with Freeze on it. :( I guess it's too similar to existing major/minor cold staves.

    These community event decisions do seem to be a bit arbitrary though. Like with Mauve Manticore #3 having a supplement set. Well, it's not too big of a deal imo, since most games don't even have official endorsement for fan created content.
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2015
  19. Pawndawan

    Pawndawan Champion of Cardhuntria

    I see two problems with your Winter's Wrath: 1) I think Blizzard Breath is really undercosted and should be at least gold, maybe even emerald. This would make the item level of your staff too high (at least lvl 21, quite possible more). 2) Blizkenripper doesn't have that many cold attacks (only Bizzard Breath & Ice Bolts), so your item is not that tightly themed around the monster.
    billiska and Flaxative like this.
  20. Juxtapostion

    Juxtapostion Hydra

    Thank you @Inkfingers . I very much appreciate your desire for perspective.
    I was most disappointed about the fact that a winning item had more then 1 monster card on it. Despite the guidelines iterating it multiply times. I can see why, and I am not in any way arguing against your perspective, the statement as to automatic disqualification gave the freedom to design items outside the guidelines. However due to the sequential nature of reading the question after the guidelines I took it to mean that there are no instant DQs within those guidelines. And, I feel cheated because I wanted to put multiple monster cards on an item. In fact I ended up going with a laugh because I felt the only monsters that I really liked and wanted to design around had few if any player cards available in their pool. (ex: Tsastii ;))

    There were some other things that frustrated me but more on a personal level (aimed at self) than with the contest this month.
    I definitely underestimated the "tightness" needed to be considered as I assumed that a single monster card item can only be so "tight"
    And, I took "themed" to mean based on a monster.
    I think "tightly themed" meant something closer to: almost every card on the item should come from a monsters pool.
    Finally, and this again is a personal failing, when I found out that multiple monster cards could be used I felt that I did not have as much fun as I could have had. It is ridiculous, but my perception of the "deficit" fun from following the guidelines put a bad taste in my mouth.

    All of this got bundled together to make me very angry. I put a lot of pride (probably too much) into gaming, whether playing or designing. I also happen to be rules follower for the most part because following the rules typically pays off. So when following the rules did not pay off and I did not fully grasp @Flaxative 's intent I became upset.

    In conclusion, I feel that @Flaxative the guidelines should not be in place if they can be broken. That being said I do not expect you to explicitly state everything you intend or do not intend. That is just ridiculous. Nor do I expect you to change in any way your subjectivity. I do want the freedom to design wildly and now know that I can.

    I also am very much appreciative of your answer to the frustration that has been expressed @Flaxative . I also hold in high regard the winner's of he contest. Congratulations! Perhaps one day I too can wrap my head around good design!

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