Aloyzo's Arsenal #15: You make the card! Part 4: Card Effect!

Discussion in 'Announcements' started by Flaxative, Oct 21, 2016.


Aloyzo's making a new card. What's the card?

Poll closed Nov 4, 2016.
  1. Clear Mind

    5 vote(s)
  2. Disengage, Soldiers!

    2 vote(s)
  3. Ready to Strike

    30 vote(s)
  4. Scout's Vigil

    5 vote(s)
  5. Terrifying Visage

    30 vote(s)
  6. Trailblazer

    3 vote(s)
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  1. Vlamona

    Vlamona Thaumaturge

    But think_panther there is supposed to be a new card.
  2. Regardless, what I think Think_Panther is trying to say is that when you build a warrior you put all or most of your tokens into attacks and parries, not some one-in-a-deck miraculous helmet card.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016
  3. How will the card's rarity be decided?
  4. DunDunDun

    DunDunDun Thaumaturge

    It's a new card. As you yourselves both just indicated, helmets are lacking in compelling cards- you pop 'em on for quickness aura, team movement, all-out-attack, or extra armor, but you don't really prioritize any of that most of the time.
    ..also, Delegate is a human skill, so it wouldn't get on a helmet anyway. And personally, I'm voting for an accessible quailty, so that we see a lot of items with the new card, thus helping flesh helmets out as [I feel] they need to be.

    So none of your points actually make a case against helmets, to the contrary..
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016
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  5. Doesn't look like we'll actually get to vote for rarity. I assume this is because the devs know that everyone would vote common.
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  6. Maniafig

    Maniafig Thaumaturge

    It's not even decided we'll get a Helmet and people already are speculating on what Card Type and Quality people will vote for? :p

    What if people vote for a Boost card? What if they vote for a Silver quality card? Do we even know whether Amethyst and Emerald quality are going to be poll options? I'd say it's too early to say the Helmet we'll get is going to be unusable, and I certainly think that the fact that token Helmets barely get used is a good reason to try and make token Helmets worth using as a community, especially if it winds up being at a quality where multiple copies can be itemized on a single Helmet. Even a gold card can be on a tokenless item.
  7. DunDunDun

    DunDunDun Thaumaturge

    I was responding to "Then, most probably we will follow with either green or purple", on the topic of quality. Your use of rarity in your last comment led to me confusing the vocabulary.

    Well said :)
    I'm thinking silver or gold would be the ideal for getting something potent enough to make helmets stand out, but cheap enough that the card can be accessible to any token cost of helmet, keeping it accessible. Either one should let Aloyzo give us a nice breadth of options, between utility and potency.

    If Arcane Item manages to take a lead.. that's a bit more complicated, since there's already a good breadth of arcane item cards. I think if we end up with an AI, we'd want to see if we can get an idea of what types of concepts Aloyzo has the spellcraft lore to whip up, before figuring out what quality to go with.

    The thought of a new helmet card that stands out distinctly from the existing ones, is pretty appealing, though. At the moment, Helmets mostly feel like boots (movement, armor, bit of offense) with a splash of human skill (team manipulation). It'd be cool if they get a card that's primary to them, outside of the somewhat niche Quick Reactions [I don't think any other cards are Helmet-exclusive/primary, anyway?].
    Given that we'll be picking from a list of possible effects, we ought have good odds of getting something the community really finds appealing out of it all.

    Put another way: There's currently only a very small number of helms that stand out, and a few more past those that we typically give consideration. And of those, there's not really a variety to pick across- for example, if you're going defense, you know you're going for the tokenless reliable mail+2x officer, or if you've the yellow token to spend, bubble helm. Offense? Quicknessx2+AoA, or maybe Angry Jack for Reliable Mail+Blind Rage, with walk, team for a bit of extra team positioning power. Blue token either way. Cheap cycling? The Quick Reactions+Thick Hide+Traveling Curse helm is a solid bet at tokenless.

    The issue is, there's just not a good variety of cards available to helms to give us good variety per play style (without simply adding tons of minorly nuanced items in), and certainly not to the point of giving good variety per each token tier. Adding a new (less niche than QR) helmet card could make picking out our hats as noteworthy as such an important fashion decision deserves to be.

    And heavens know, you all could use some help with your fashion sense. :rolleyes:
    [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG]

    ..okay, I guess occasionally one of you gets it right. =O
  8. I won't let arcane item take the lead if I can help it. CM is going to release the coolest new batch of arcane items I've ever seen, they don't need more attention. If it comes down to the line, I am willing to commit to the helmet.
    I agree that silver and gold would be good. Particularly gold. Hopefully many share your opinion. If they don't, we'll probably end up with Think_Panther's Delegate helmet, provided helmets win.
    Helmets do deserve another fully helmet card. I only voted Divine armor because I think that divine armor is more interesting as a concept than helmets, and that current divine armors feel mostly like either Heavy armors or divine items. I am pleased that CM is releasing the Sacred Robes, and I think that divine armor could use some more unique cards of their own (maybe some demon/evil themed armor)

    Those hat pics are great. I especially like the cabbage cat. :cool:
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2016
  9. DunDunDun

    DunDunDun Thaumaturge

    As I said, that's not going to be a concern. Delegate is human-only, and we'll only be using new card concepts designed specifically for this event anyway. So at the very least, we're for sure not getting Delegate on a helm out of this.
    Though, I gotta admit to being a bit intrigued as to what kind of amethyst helmet-only power Aloyzo could come up with, so even if it goes that way, we should still get something interesting out of it all.
    Still, given how rarely amethyst cards are put on items even where they do exist as being available for players, going that direction is likely a poor decision for a reason beyond the sentiments that I listed above.

    Well, Divine Armors still offer a lot more pick-and-choose consideration than Helmets, but you're certainly right in that they could also do for a bit of attention. They'd be my pick after helmets, as well. :)

    There's actually tons of excellent hat-wearing cat pictures out there, but I had to limit myself to a single goofy one here. I too, especially liked Cabbage Cat. :D

    [​IMG] [​IMG] [​IMG][​IMG] [​IMG]
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
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  10. DunDunDun

    DunDunDun Thaumaturge

    Even making that a mandatory play card, the fact that you can control the positioning means it's still about on par with firestorm, which is paper.
    (Even in its worst scenario usage, it's still a move 2 for 3 damage, which sorta still puts it on par with shuffle.)
    If it's not mandatory movement, it'd be even higher quality.

    Of course, you could make it mandatory AND random move, and then it might work.. =O
    I vote we call it "Dwarven Demolitions" :3

    But otherwise, a tar movement card would be.. hmm.
    Well, if Panic can manage to be paper, there's not much in the way of options, short of something along the lines of "Desperate Getaway: Mandatory, discard all attack and armor cards, move 1 space plus 1 space per card discarded".
    And I'm pretty sure that'd never be worth slotting, even on a support priest. :p

    Let's maybe just not try and force ourselves into designing terrible cards, I guess? :rolleyes:
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  11. Sounds like a very good plan. @Gingrich Yurr Slowed is a tar quality move card, so we don't need another. I don't think tar quality move cards is a category that really needs a lot of diversification. If absolutely neccessary, the devs could give us access to Forced Rotate.
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  12. DunDunDun

    DunDunDun Thaumaturge

    I think the key lesson here is that tar movement cards don't tend to, y'know, actually move you any. :p

    "Fit of Crazed Dancing: Move 0. Mandatory. Halt. Stun. Attach, Duration 1. While attached, you get +1 to all rolls and are considered to always have facing."

    Nevermind what I said before- we totally need this. :eek:

    Last edited: Oct 23, 2016
  13. I think that the halt is inappropriate, because it would interfere with the bonus to Dodge, Skip and Reflexive Teleport. Besides, you can move while dancing Crazily.
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  14. hello world

    hello world Hydra

    oops, burst 1.
    firestorm doesn't require you to pass priority next to an enemy to deal damage(or having line of sight, but flash of pain does).
    Thaat's why I said a wizard card, because moving next to an enemy is not something you usually want to do with a wizard or big zap wouldn't be a paper+ card.
    walk/the 2 damage step attack is a paper move, shuffle is paper minus.
  15. I have my own idea for a tar quality move card.
    Both hands off The Wheel
    Move 8, Teleport.
    Make this move under enemy control. Mandatory Action.
  16. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    That's too under-powered! Give it cantrip and at least it wouldn't mean the enemy can instantly back-stab you or something.
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  17. Flaxative

    Flaxative Party Leader

    Re: this whole discussion...

    It's almost as if we shouldn't be aiming to design at the margins of power? :p
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  18. ParodyKnaveBob

    ParodyKnaveBob Thaumaturge

    Neat twist on Aloyzo this month, Flak! $:^ ]

    I, too, vote Helmets. I pointed out during the AI AA that we should fill that missing AI item slot, and offered up a decent enough attempt myself, but alas, think_panther's @Stexe's Delegate item got through. $;^ }

    Btw, @DunDunDun, lots of good points, but (and especially because you asked) War Cry is primarily a Helmet card. Only one Dwarf Skill gets it otherwise.

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  19. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    I think war cry should get better itemization on helmet.
  20. DunDunDun

    DunDunDun Thaumaturge

    What a preposterous idea! You're clearly just being silly, now. :rolleyes:

    Oops. Yeah, mentally I had that linked as a racial trait that happens to also be on helmets, similar to the human skills on helms, but I suppose it's actually more the reverse.

    I think, to some degree, War Cry is intentionally limited in implementation, because of its high potential potency. That said, you're likely right, we could do with a bit more selection there.
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