Weapons with non-attack cards

Discussion in 'Deck Building' started by Ector, May 7, 2014.

  1. Sir Veza

    Sir Veza Farming Deity

    I still think nerfing VP (and possibly Loch by 1) would be a better solution than nerfing NS. I like the idea of having items with NS just to keep things interesting. As several have noted, upping the quality to gold should force a change to most of the items.
    I really like your idea of a ER burst 1 card. There is nothing cuter than an entangled step warrior, unless it's one of mine.
    hatchhermit and Jacques like this.
  2. Squidy

    Squidy Hydra

    And it's easy to attack the ennemy from behind with NS making the opponant unable to block.
    Jacques likes this.
  3. Jacques

    Jacques Hydra

    Yeah, I thought of that one because when I tried Entangling Roots as an attempt to counter step warriors, it didn't work. Actually, it worked only one time. When the opponent realized I was playing with that card, he simply hid their warriors from my priest, and then reached him with a ns. At that point, it was risky to use ER because the warrior was already there and could attack with big non step attacks. So, with a ER with burst 1 that wouldn't happen. Of course it would be a very powerful card, so it should be properly balanced with other not so good cards in those items.

    About nerfing ns or nerfing the problematic items, I have said that I would be ok if it only appeared once or twice per item. Lochaber could have 2 ns and 2 vt instead of 3 and 1, and it would be a simple nerf. But the problem is that the same can't be done with VP. I don't see possible a VP nerf where only remained 2 ns, because that would change completely the item. I have thought about something like 2 ns, 2 Dancing Cuts and 2 vt, but as I said, it would be a totally different item. I know that this has already been discussed several times, but what is your suggestion of a VP nerf? If you have already said it and you don't want to repeat it, feel free to put a link.
  4. Sir Veza

    Sir Veza Farming Deity

    I've suggested keeping it silver: 3 NS and 3 Barge. I'm pretty sure the current owners would object, and I don't think it would fly with BM. There is still a lot of movement involved, just on separate ends. ;) (I didn't expect it to be taken too seriously.)
  5. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    I'd think 3 ns 3 dancing cut would be okay, we're talking a 2 major token item, pretty rare one even. The item's function would remain pretty much unchanged, only slightly less powerful
  6. Jacques

    Jacques Hydra

    3 ns and 3 dancing cut would still be a fantastic item, maybe too much for me, but it would be more balanced. 3 Barge? Barge is one of the worse silver attacks, I think that would be degrading way too much VP. Lochaber would be as good as vp with that change. 3 NS, 2 Dancing Cut and one Barge would be ok I think.
  7. Sir Veza

    Sir Veza Farming Deity

    Part of my logic was that NS was underrated at silver quality and Barge was overrated, so combining the two should balance. It wouldn't really, obviously. As Martin K and Kalin (IIRC) have pointed out, VP is pretty much off the scale for calculated ratings. Whiteglow Flail and Iron Staff of the Magus have NS, and don't appear to be causing balance problems. If VP was downgraded as you described I think it would solve a lot. Another method would be to design maps where movement was not so powerful, but the sameness of that wouldn't wear well either.
  8. Lord Feleran

    Lord Feleran Guild Leader

    3 NS and 3 D Cuts sounds OK to me.
  9. jday

    jday Mushroom Warrior

    If I had VP and it had 6 D Cuts I would still play it.
  10. e-stab

    e-stab Goblin Champion

    Like that one? :D
  11. Bandreus

    Bandreus Thaumaturge

    But even then, movement/positioning is a huge part of CH. Any map severely reducing the importance of it would be incredibly boring/frustrating. I guess it's okay for Leagues to try new, unusual things. But when it comes to the MP map pool, I'd stay away from that.
  12. Jade303

    Jade303 Thaumaturge

    So I tried using Lochaber Axe/Lochaber Axe/Reaper's Scythe on one of my dwarf warriors for a while. It actually worked fairly well during the Tezkal rotation. Now wait, stop, using those 3 items means that you only have 14 attacks- 3 Weak Chop, 2 Vicious Thrust, 6 Nimble Strike and then 2 Obliterating Chop, 1 Obliterating Bludgeon. So you get like 11 quality attacks on your entire warrior.
    I think the only reason it worked is because you can step into your opponents, dodge back, and then walk/attack again. The sheer nimble striking plus high-damage attacks, plus dodge? It works, assuming that you can draw some of those 11 cards.

    So here is my question- If you are using a weapon like Reaper's Scythe or even Bloodchopper, how should you compensate for the lack of attacks?

    Similarily, if you use two Lochabers (which works, it's been proven!) how should you compensate for the four cards (two Weak Chop, 2 Unreliable Block)?

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