I've been playing a whole lot of quick draw since the birthday celebration (love the format!) and there are four cards that I believe are very unbalanced in this format: resistant hide, dodge, impenetrable nimbus, and mass frenzy. Resistant Hide: Any card that can completely shut down the offense of an entire class is a huge problem in pvp. I've heard of a game where someone got three wizards and their opponent drafted resistant hide, and that's just ridiculous. Not only does resistant hide shut down all the big damage fire and lightning cards, it also provides superb protection against the low damage arcane and cold spells that actually have a chance of doing damage. It also provides almost the best melee protection of anything you can get on robes. Imagine if there was an card usable in pvp that gave immunity to crushing and slashing attacks. Even though low damage piercing could technically get through, it's still not a card that players should have in their decks! The only counter to resistant hide is armor removal, but it's often not a great idea to draft armor removal in quick draw, since the removal will end up as dead cards a lot of the time and it's quite uncommon to draft a resistant hide in the first place. It's just a very large advantage if it is drafted. Even if resistant hide does get discarded from removal, the small QD decks mean it will show up again very soon. I think resistant hide is unbalanced in constructed too; I for one am pretty tired of ignoring 90% of the robes in the game because I always want to pick one with hide. Not to mention that bringing it trivializes several campaign maps. Suggested fix: Remove all resistant hide from player gear and replace it with something else (like you did with fireball). Possible replacements: Thick hide armor, reliable mail, mystical drakehide. Remove resistant hide from draft pool. Dodge: This card can provide a huge amount of card advantage with its "keep" clause. In one quick draw game, my opponent triggered dodge four times in a row, which means that his single card basically made me discard four attack cards. This is insane card advantage on par with the old altruism (before the keep unless 4 was added). It's a similar idea - 50% chance of making your opponent basically discard a card, and you get to keep the dodge card. Yes, dodge can fail every time, but 50% is a pretty good chance and even a single trigger gives card advantage (opponent loses an attack card and you lose no cards). Even worse, it doesn't count as a block or armor card, so you can't counter it with the likes of unnerving strike or sundering strike. Dodge is so hard to counter that once your opponent has it you are pretty much resigned to having half your melee attacks fail against that character. One of the few ways to counter dodge is encumber, which is not commonly available in quick draw. Dodge is way overpowered for its rarity (it is strictly better than "block" and almost strictly better than surging shield block), which is a problem in QD because it is the best bronze pick for any class. I believe dodge is too strong in constructed as well, for the card advantage reasons mentioned above. If elven trickery and short perplexing ray were too strong for discarding 2 (they were), then dodge is definitely too strong. Suggested fixes: Add keep unless 4 to dodge (it may still be too strong even with this). Or change the dice roll to 5+ (unreliable enough to not be a huge problem and more similar to reflexive teleport). Or change dodge to also be a block card so it can be countered by more things. Or simply remove the keep (this makes it a similar strength to the bronze "block" and keeps it on par with the bronze rarity). Edit: Or replace the keep with draw a card to make it similar to parry and catch arrow. Impenetrable nimbus: I'm not sure if this card is unbalanced in constructed or not, but it can get ridiculous in quick draw. The reason for this is the small decks, so nimbus will show up over and over again and provide a large and nearly uncounterable advantage. Twice during my quick draw matches I would draft a single nimbus, and because of the small deck size I'd play it, then immediately draw it again the next turn. These two turns of having a key character invincible basically won those games for me. Its only counter is purge, and purge cards rarely show up as available in QD. If you have only a seven card deck, one of the cards is likely a trait, and you draw two cards per turn, then that means you can turn invulnerable about once every three turns, which I feel is too strong and very frustrating for an opponent. Nimbus stacking I think has also been a bit of a problem in constructed - nobody really wants to play against someone who can turn a character completely invincible for several turns in a row, especially when the invincible character is standing on a victory point. Suggested fixes: Have nimbus add a negative attachment when it expires called something like "nimbus cooldown" with duration 1 or 2 that says something like "If a holy card would be attached to you, discard that card instead". That would prevent nimbus chaining on the same character for multiple turns. Or just remove nimbus from the draft pool. Mass frenzy: This card has incredible damage potential for its rarity, especially considering how easy it is in quick draw to draft a character with almost all damage cards. It is only silver rarity, yet is almost always better than the gold unholy wellspring (except for the case where you can buff a wizard). Avoiding a single character buffed with wellspring is doable, but avoiding an entire melee party buffed with frenzy for two turns is very difficult. Avoiding melee range for two turns or using three purge cards are the only ways to actually "counter" mass frenzy, which aren't particularly likely options in QD. Mass frenzy is the only self-buff available for the priest, which makes it even stronger. I think it is a problem in constructed as well, since it gives all melee party a lot of edge over "balanced" parties of 1 warrior, 1 priest, 1 wizard. A lot of people use priests purely to bring this card, which I think is a design problem. Mass frenzy is one of the few culprits left in the "legendary cards give a ridiculous advantage" category that vibrant pain used to reside in, as the legendary divine item that gives three mass frenzy is extremely strong (as are the legendary divine items that give 2x mass frenzy). Suggested fixes: Have mass frenzy give frenzy 2 instead. This cuts damage potential per character from 12 + 6 = 18 to 8 + 4 = 12 bonus damage in the case of all attack cards, which is much more reasonable (but still quite strong). Or have mass frenzy last only 1 turn (still a large upgrade from righteous frenzy, but may end up being too weak with this change). Or have mass frenzy give ALL characters frenzy 3 duration 2 rather than just allies (flavorful but possibly unwise change. Might discourage using wizards too much). Not that its current design doesn't already discourage wizards.
My suggestions to deal with these: Resistant Hide: Kill the characters who don't have Resistant Hide, then play cat & mouse while winning through VP placement and movement. Do not camp the VP. Dodge: Kill the characters who don't have Dodge. Then camp VPs and activate the Dodge so the last character can't stay close enough to kill you. Impenetrable Nimbus: Build up attacks until you can kill the source of the Nimbus in one turn. Trick the opponent into casting it on another target. Kill the priest. Mass Frenzy: Don't know. Those are my suggestions. I had Impenetrable Nimbus and Volcano one game and still lost. I camped the victory point with my Nimbused Wizard. The tide turned when he killed my priest. I'm surprised you didn't bring up Toughness. Not only does it completely negate the damage, it accelerates the deck so that you draw it again. Toughness is the only card I can think of that I would support removing from QD.
You're right, toughness is definitely a problem card with the super small decks. It's gold rarity and appears a lot less often though, so I didn't think of it. Personally I'd like to see toughness either only prevent damage from the front or just reduce damage by a set amount (maybe 3 or 4). A couple of thoughts on your responses: Resistant hide: Yes, control wizards are great in a lot of quick draw maps and can win through moving enemies off victory points without having to worry about the fact that the resistant hide character is essentially unkillable by wizards. However, it is definitely a problem if control is the only reasonable way to draft in a format (i.e. you would always only pick gusts of war instead of mighty spark). Besides, one doesn't know if the enemy will draft a resistant hide, which means that one would always have to pick control over damage to be safe. Dodge: If you have to specifically avoid killing a character just because they are carrying the dodge card, that suggests that the card is too strong (Although currently, I also will try to completely avoid attacking a dodge-carrying character to avoid wasting all my cards and losing). Depending on the map and positioning, sometimes the opponent will make it very difficult to get around one character to reach the others. Nimbus: Same problem as dodge - often an opponent won't let you even reach the priest by blocking with the character that they have put nimbus on. A lot of this depends on how open the map is. "Trick the opponent into casting it" requires an opponent who will play nimbus on another character while their priest is in range, which won't always happen.
Do you not focus fire a specific character to gain a numbers advantage? I guess my main points are that if there's a character that has one of those cards or effects why are you bothering with that character? Identify and take out the weakest link. Don't play their game. They want you to attack those characters. Even if it means abandoning a position of strength or a VP for a turn. It will be worth it to shift. But, you bring up a good point about positioning. Any cards that let you move are usually worth it over the others during drafting. For Impenetrable Nimbus I meant that if there's a character that the opponent has played Nimbus on over and over, ignore him and prepare to take out the priest. Then start hitting the original guy until he plays Nimbus. Then go for the priest. If he reacts as you expect, you can take out the source (Priest). If he doesn't, you take out the original character. Mass Frenzy is tough. The best answer is to avoid their characters, but that doesn't always work due to VP placement. Alternatively, you can let your tank character (if you have one) soak damage while you take out their damage dealer with everyone else. Or if you can't do that. Again, take out the source of the Mass Frenzy. You may still lose by attrition, but you may win if that was the crux of the opponents power. In the end it is probably folly for me to try to provide tactics since they depend on so much. Team comp, map, opponents decisions. The best plans are thrown out when the fighting starts. But I do think a opposing team who has these cards can be handled and won against regularly.
As hatchhermit has intimated, there are so many ways to counter opponent's "problem cards" and they are far from being limited to direct hard counters. Get creative! And remember, there are two ways to win every game, killing your opponent and holding victory squares, it's almost impossible to have an opponent that will be able to build a team that counters both well.
I don't often draft Resistant Hide. But when I do, my opponent has no wizards. Stay thirsty my friends.
It's definitely possible to play around these cards, and drafting one or more them doesn't guarantee a win by any means. Against dodge you can flank your opponents to always get back attacks or get lucky on the rolls, against nimbus and frenzy you can wait a turn or two (if they aren't on the victory points) or just take a lot of damage, and against resistant hide you can... hope you didn't draft for damage on your wizards. However, that does not mean that those cards are balanced.
Of the 4 you mentioned I think all have been brought up as needing balanced for ranked MP by the best players and for that version of CH I think it is warranted. I don't think QD is meant to be as serious. So it's not that you don't have valid points, because you do. I think it's that QD is meant to be swingy and fast so these types of strong cards support that type of game play.
And just because a card has a larger affect on a game than another doesn't mean it's unbalanced, there are supposed to be strong cards and weak cards. And maybe some of these need another look for overall MP as hatchhermit says, but as far as specific to QD I'm less convinced. You're still selling yourself short on counters, here are a few off the top of my head, I'm sure there's plenty more that other people could add. Resistant Hide Counters for Warriors - unnecessary Counters for Priests - unnecessary Counters for Wizards - armor removal, control cards, discard effects, non-fire/electrical damage Counters by play - attack other characters, engage with melee, control victory squares Dodge Counters for Warriors - range 2 attacks, positioning, icy block Counters for Priests - entangled roots, range 2 attacks, positioning, icy block Counters for Wizards - encumber, terrain attachments to force the opponent to use dodge, burst attacks, open line of sight Counters by play - bracket dodged character between 2, attack with ranged attacks, control victory squares Nimbus Counters for Warriors - bashes and barges Counters for Priests - purging cards, attachment cards Counters for Wizards - control cards, attachment cards Counters by play - attack other characters, use control and knock back melee cards to keep nimbused player out of the way, control victory squares, push off nimbus with other attachments (I've even put a healing attachment on a opponent as a 3rd attachment to push off nimbus - remember, be creative!), pass to gain priority for the next turn and hit them before they can nimbus. Mass Frenzy Counters for Warriors - blocks, range 2 attacks, bashes and barges Counters for Priests - blocks, range 2 attacks, purge effects, bashes Counters for Wizards - control cards, ranged attacks etc. etc. Counters by play - be patient, hit hard and fast when you do, etc. etc.
Those four cards are OP period, not just in Quick Draw. They could use some changing globally. One change I'd like to see for Quick Draw is for the black cards to be chosen either first or last -- I want to be able to cater my deck around it since it is usually the biggest swing card. Tried to get Jon to rebalance the black / handicap cards but no luck.
I don't know, if you pick your black card first and get stuck with the wrong handicap it can screw up your entire draft. Conversely, a very good draft could be ruined by the appearance of 3 nasty handicap cards at the end. I don't think it matters honestly. Quick Draw isn't perfect, it's just supposed to be fast, crazy fun.
