"Slide," "Slide Back," and "Push" are currently a tangle of redundancy

I posted about this in response to the recent build, but I wanted a dedicated thread to see what people thought. Assuming anyone bothers with yet another loquacious screed.

Currently, the game has a complex system of movement and facing: you can move your own characters; you can change your characters' facing; you can hit enemies and cause them to turn and face you; and you can even use abilities to move enemies outright (e.g., Telekinesis). This has already led to redundancy. Remember Maze? It's the only card in the game to use the "Stealthy" keyword: until build 2.16, all other cards where "the target does not turn to face the attacker" explained this in full words. On the most basic level, this could use cleanup: if you have a keyword, why not use it?

Before build 2.16, "Push" and "Slide" cards also could have used cleanup. There's "Slide" and there's "Slide Back": why have both? Why not just rewrite cards so that "Push" covers effects like Telekinesis, while "Slide Back" is the only form of "Sliding" in the game, thus covering effects like Bash?

Now we get to build 2.16:

Today, Push and Slide cards ALSO have this "don't turn to face the attacker" property. Once again, their existence is redundant, but with the change there is also a dramatic jolt to the flow of combat. Pin a Trog Gouger with its face against a wall, hit it with three Bludgeons, and what happens? The Gouger turns towards you, and Crude Plates save it a lot of pain. This fact is explained to great effect in the tutorial levels (with Blocks). But use three Bashes, and what happens today? With the Slide (Back) effect, The Gouger stands and suffers, despite the logic built up during tutorial training.

The Push keyword DOES make sense with the change. Unfortunately, Push is rarely used: Shuffle, Team! and related ones are the main examples. The lack of "turning to face you" makes sense there because you are completely in control of the target's new location.

So . . . instead of granting Push and Slide this duplicate ability, why not just resolve the redundancy? Why not grant Push cards the "don't turn to face the attacker" property, apply Push to all cards that require this, restore Slide cards to the way they had been (turning to face the attacker), but apply Slide only to "Slide Back" situations?

For one, Telekinesis could just be a Push card. (Why isn't it already?) Maze could just say "Push 2, randomly." (Eliminating "Stealthy" until it's actually needed, for, say, Rogue cards.) For that matter, Jump Back could probably say "Slide Back 2."

Thus there'd be more intuitive play and more streamlined keywords.

 

Hear, hear! I don't have much else to add to my agreement other than that I think the suggestion has particular merit given your Trog Gouger example.

 

Excellent suggestion. It could make a lot more sense if it were streamlined a bit more.

There are actually 3 scenarios, though:
1) What I would think of as "sliding" - the target's final facing should be the same as their initial one whichever direction they move.
2) The "movement orders", e.g. Dash Team. In this scenario, your targets are running around, and you would expect their facing to be in the direction of movement.
3) The bashing scenario. Here, the enemy is moving but I would expect them to turn you face you afterwards. It is an attack, after all, and I'd expect this behavior for all the red cards that move people.

It's a bit of an issue of preference, but for my 2c, I think a "move other" keyword would be the least confusing for the 2nd scenario. (i.e. Dash Team would read Move Other 4 all allies). "Push" sounds more aggressive and like the third, where "slide" seems a good fit for the first.

 

Rorre, I believe I agree. Or, well, any system that applies rules consistently (and intuitively, and non-redundantly) is fine by me.

 

I have only just joined and started playing so forgive me if I miss some, but I believe there are more than the tree that you mentioned that need to be taken into consideration.

1. Team orders (Team! family - Push x other allies), normal move facing.
2. Team Mobility (Mobility family - Move x, Free Move), normal move facing.
3. Attack knockback family (Slide back x), turns to face attacker.
4. Armor Reaction Movement (Crude Plates - Move Back X), turns to face attacker.
5. Telekinesis family (Slide x), facing remains unchanged.
6. Maze (Move 2 randomly (but not free move nor Teleport 2 randomly correct?)), random facing.

Looking at these I would suggest the following:

1. Push X becomes Move X : They are mechanically identical, the only difference is on which units turn it happens. I see no reason to differentiate them.
2. Move X, Free Move stays the same.
3. Slide Back X becomes Knockback X : Attack is actually knocking them backwards. The knockback name is intuitive.
4. Move Back X becomes Slide Back X : Slide back suggests a lack of player control, as well as the direction.
5. Slide X stays the same.
6. Move 2 randomly stays the same: This is an oddball (and a one off?) I'd personally like it to be something like Random Teleport 2 or something similar, but that's getting a bit more into game design than simple naming conventions for clarity.