Should forms be reformed?

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by Janet, Feb 2, 2017.

  1. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    Having perused this wise thread, i have the following balance recommendations:
    Spirit form cards: replace Fly with Planar Travel. Replace Memory Loss with Barrier Of Hate
    Spirit form itemization: create a minor token spirit form option, create a spirit form option for robes that doesn't have medium's garb.
    Vampire form itemization: provide at least two options at divine armor that include the trait Vampiric Form
    Vampiric form card: change to "anytime you play an attack that heals, heal 2."
    Last edited: Feb 4, 2017
    Janet and j3st3ri like this.
  2. Gingrich Yurr

    Gingrich Yurr Thaumaturge

    Why give Vampiric Form a strictly inferior ability to Talented Healer? Who would play it over Talented Healer then?

    I like some earlier suggestions like Frenzy or Penetrating to Unholy attacks, it gives Vampiric Form a different niche to Talented Healer. Talented Healer would still likely be preferred but at least there would be some who would use Vampiric Form for the aforementioned abilities instead.
  3. Janet

    Janet Guild Leader

    While I do agree with the idea that spirit form should have a card to mitigate damage in its pool, it cannot be something as strong as barrier of hate, because with two Medium's Garb one would have almost a 20% chance to draw one per turn and I think it would be broken. It would have to be an armor card such as Reliable Hide or something as simple as Jarring Block, Block or (In theme with the expansion!) Shifting Block. I think it cannot be a card that gives you a draw (you'd be drawing with Medium's garb and then drawing even further with the block)

    I must agree with this
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  4. timeracers

    timeracers Guild Leader

    Firstly all forms get about 1 defensive card except this, and vampire's and werewolf's both have potent defense cards. Secondly, Barrier Of Hate doesn't give a draw in all scenarios, only in melee which isn't where a spirit wants to be. It's the same as old shield block with a better success rate (2+). I still suggest nerfing Medium's Garg.
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  5. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    How about No Vital Organs instead of Barrier Of Hate as a suggested block?
    I hear you @Janet and @Gingrich Yurr on the necessity for more power in vamp form card. Frenzy 2 makes it competitive with talented healer. The problem with competing with talented healer is: its one of the most powerful cards in the game. Three more ideas for changing vamp form card: when you play a heal card add cantrip to that card. (I know not quite as good as talented but the card pool is totally synergistic.) When you play an attack card without healing, heal 2. (Non-synergistic but interesting) OR when you play a heal card add penetrating to it.


    I like Barrier Of Hate . They have Beam Of Hate anyways, and like @timeracers said, it draws only on melee.
    Anyways, for Vampire form, I agree that it needs buffing, but I don't exactly want any of the listed options. I'd rather have the heal per round increased, so that total healing is buffed.
  7. rinco69

    rinco69 Thaumaturge

    More thoughts on the forms and not the cards...

    Vampires are charismatic so should get Hard To Block 1 on all attacks.
    Vamp attacks should not heal when used against Zombies. Because undead blood etc.
    Everyone knows zombies are hard to kill. So when damaged they instead lose a random card (with saving roll), which would prevent the damage.
    Werewolf bites that cause damage should have a roll to attach werewolf forms. Not limited to enemy attacks.
    trrst and Janet like this.



    That would throw off the balance of the forms heavily.
  9. Macizo

    Macizo Guild Leader

    I think maybe vamp could get frenzy 3 in attacks from behind additional to current bonus. Vamps should be sneaky.
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  10. Janet

    Janet Guild Leader

    If you nerf Medium's Garb (i.e. put a roll on the draw) then I could see a card such as Barrier of Hate being more than viable in the card pool.

    One thing that's clear is that people like the idea of forms, but everybody seems to agree on the fact that spirit and vamp are no good right now.

    I don't think Blue Manchu will/can take on board a complicated suggestion like: give properties a, b, and c to this form. I think they need a good suggestion to improve 1 property for each form. That can be a first step in the right direction (and something very easy to implement) which can be followed by a revision of card pool (much more testing and tweaking required).
    ParodyKnaveBob and Macizo like this.
  11. Kalin

    Kalin Begat G'zok

    Scarponi, PULSEFIRE, Maniafig and 3 others like this.
  12. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    Would the following changes make vamps the new werewolves in terms of power?
    1) Change Vampire's kiss second sentence to: Create a random vampire card in your hand, then discard your oldest card.
    2) Change Vampiric form's sentence regarding healing 3 at the beginning of the turn to: whenever you target an opponent with a heal card create a random vampire card in their hand then they discard their oldest card.
  13. Janet

    Janet Guild Leader

    I like the first idea, though probably vampire's kiss would have to do less damage.
    Problem with second idea is that Vampire's don't have heals in their card pool so they could never take advantage of their form's property! :)
  14. tolkien

    tolkien Thaumaturge

    I meant the vamps attacks that heal. Should I word it differently?


    Yeah, he meant cards with the Heal keyword.
  16. Janet

    Janet Guild Leader

    Oh, sorry, I missunderstood that! :p Hmm, not quite sure how that would go, you'd basically be turning your opponent in another vamp, but he/she may be at a disadvantage if he does not have frenzy etc..

    It's an interesting idea, but I'm wondering if something more straightforward like frenzy, penetrating, or armor might not be better for vamps?
  17. seth arue

    seth arue Thaumaturge

    Perhaps word it to "When you play a Melee Unholy attack..."
    But I still prefer giving "Melee Unholy attacks you play gain Penetrating."
  18. gulo gulo

    gulo gulo Guild Leader

    I like the Flash Of Agony idea for Spirits, as it ties in with the Traveling Curse already there. I do not like the subtraction of Memory Loss, I actually wish this card was more available, because I want to make a Perplexing Ray / Memory Loss build a thing (I'd say Short Perplexing Ray, but the fact that the move is cancelled if it is blocked is a killer for me).

    Anyway, spirits would be great if they could teleport away and encumber via some sort of disorienting fog, or became hard to target via some sort of auto-Illusion Barrier burst they create at the start of each round. Not Illusory, because that would clog up the board, but a 1 round barrier that prevents instant attacks that aren't already mitigated by the form armor. You need to chase after and find a spirit to attack it, it should be quick and easy to avoid attacks. Or a Volcano-style card that turned all terrain attachments into acid for potent Hex Of Dissolution attacks. Hey, acid wizards could exist then!

    Werewolves should have some sort of frenzy damage that affects them every time they attack or at the beginning of every round. Some sort of 'Call of Nature/Nature's Revenge' whatever idea. I also think the naked after changing back is nice, but it's very easy to get Lycanthropic Form now via a ton of Howl in a deck (you can get, what, 11 on a warrior?). I'd modify Howl to draw a card only if it heals (sort of how like that card that heals when you clear a terrain spot someone is on), so you don't have intense howling at the beginning of every match. Or Howl could only draw a card either when the form is attached or when it is not attached.

    I never see Vampires, so I don't know what they need. Zombies would be interesting if they created a random low-health Zombie on the board each round that had Ready To Strike or something, sort of like a necrophage terrain attachment. You can go and kill it with some small attack, or avoid it for the round or two it's there.

    Just some random thoughts to make forms perhaps a little more enjoyable.
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2017
  19. What if the spirit form was immune to normal weapons (Slashing, Piercing and Crushing)? It makes sense in that you can't stab, cut or bash a ghost and that would also force people to play more magic users (spirits) and priests (vamps). In such a case the card pool wouldn't change.

    Or another suggestion for the spirit card pool: Add NEB.


    Negative Energy Being is a little OP. For those people who don't have a purging type card on their priest or warrior, the spirit could become unkillable.

    However, the logic behind the immunity doesn't apply very well, as you can still stab, cut, or bash ghosts, especially with enchanted weapons. If a Burnished Blade won't do, I don't know what will.
    Anyways, I like adding Flash Of Agony to the card pool. You're immune. :)
    Another suggestion for spirit form would be to add more acid cards, to buff up Hex Of Dissolution.
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